Definately Lands of Lore. It holds up as one of the most fun and charming fantasy RPGs I played, and it's not nostalgia speaking - I only played it for the first time when I bought it here a few years ago.

They're purely Action games, not roleplaying games. Neither are point and click games like Kings Quest and LSL rpgs.

Anyway, I second on M&M6 and earlier, Ultima, Fallout 1+2, Eye of the beholder, The Elder Scrolls series.

On SNES nothing beats Super Mario RPG(!)

Lands of Lore 1 is amazingly hard though, at least what little I managed to play of it.

Anvil of Dawn and TES Arena are still my favorites among old RPGs. I wish I liked Stonekeep more, but somehow it didn't appeal to me as much as I hoped.

I will definitely try Betrayal at Krondor one day, even if the turn-based combat will most likely turn me off.

Actually, if you have a way to play it, I would say that Final Fantasy 5 is better (and is clearly better than the other FF games available on that system).

Also, Dragon Quest 6 and 3 are both good (though both fan translations have bugs, so beware); 5 and 1&2 aren't as good (note that 1&2's fan translation also has a nasty bug in it).

Unfortunately, these games were not released (for that platform) outside of Japan (though all those games have gotten subsequent releases on Nintendo handhelds since then that *did* make it to the US).

I would also point out that Super Mario RPGs, with its enemies moving in realtime outside of combat (with the option to get a free attack if you land on top of one), its platforming mechanics, its mid-combat QTEs (which the game calls "action commands"), and its action minigames, really doesn't feel particularly RPG-ish to me, particularly in comparison to the other games mentioned. (With that said, Final Fantasy 5 and 6 do have timed sequences, but then again so do 7 through 9.)

One problem with TES: Arena is that weak enemies are used for far too long, and it takes way too long before you start encountering new and interesting enemies. Case in point: After some early dungeons with spiders, and some that have a few stronger, more interesting enemies, the game has you go to a dungeon filled with spiders, when they're already old and weak. That game would be more fun if it had you fighting more interesting enemies more often throughout the game; I want more hellhounds, wraiths, golems, perhaps even have vampires and liches appear earlier in the game than they currently do.

(Also, the classes aren't balanced, the spell effects aren't balanced (though still not as bad as Daggerfall; yes, that issue actually became worse in the sequel), and the game has many bugs.)

To me, even if the game has "cartoonish" graphics it's still an RPG. The core still has different stats for every character that alters along the the way, albeit, in a (very) simplified version, but outside of the PC domain it's the one with most fun. I mean, everything with Mario is heavenly simplified.

Personally, FF is just pervasively endless, boring and annoying. Silver on the other hand actually offered a better alternative. I didn't have consoles like NES and SNES when I grew up so that might be a contributing factor. That and one of my friends was always nagging about FF. XD

I never said anything about the graphics in my post. My argument for it being less of an RPG is that it has characteristics that feel like they don't belong in the RPG genre.

Drakkhan, Baldur's Gate, The Forgotten Realms Archives... There are tons of old RPGs you have missed on here that you should check out.

Games available here:
Ultima 4+5+6
Ultima Underworld 1+2
Forgotten Realms: The Archives, Collection 2
Dungeons & Dragons: Krynn series
Dungeons & Dragons: Dark Sun series
Might and Magic 6-pack Limited Edition
Realms of Arkania 1+2
Realms of Arkania 3
Wizardry 6+7 - or try to find The Ultimate Wizardry Archives for sale somewhere
Wasteland 1: The Original Classic
The Bard's Tale Trilogy
Arcanum: Of Steamworks and Magick Obscura

Free stuff:
The Elder Scrolls: Arena - download it from Bethsoft's website
The Elder Scrolls: Daggerfall - as above
Ultima IV - download it from here
Rogue - why a roguelike when you could play Rogue?
NetHack - the best roguelike, in my opinion

Games not on GOG:
Phantasie I, II, and III - simple and fun
Wizard's Crown - ridiculously complex tactical RPG. I loved it.
Buck Rogers: Countdown to Doomsday - scifi version of the SSI Gold Box games
Buck Rogers: Matrix Cubed - as above
Alternate Reality: The City - so epic in scope that it was never even finished
Autoduel - impossibly hard compared to today's games
Temple of Apshai trilogy - if you want to see what RPGs we played in 1980

A lot of the early stuff is playable legally on archive.org.

LOL! Like I wrote in another thread; I personally understand your need for being pedantic about it. :P

I didn't write that you did. However, many hardcore rpg gamers, especially FF players, don't consider SMRPG an RPG in the stricted sense, manly because of the childish cartoony graphics. In ADDITION to the characteristics that we both mentioned...

I dont know if you are interested in Sci-Fi RPGs but if you are, the excellent "Sentinel Worlds: Future Magic" is well worth playing.

Heroes of Might & Magic III and V

Might & Magic VI-VIII

Icewind Dale (TBH, I found Baldur's Gate 1 a bit bland but I'm enjoying ID 1 so far, chapter IV at the moment)

thanks for the recommendations all. I actually just bought Icewind Dale II on sale. I am not interested in these "enchanced editions" so I figured I better buy that one while it's still the original. And I bougth HOM&M II and III also.

I must say I really am enjoying the original Lands of Lore. I didn't even know it has a map system until I accidentally clicked the journal. Now the game is much more enjoyable.

First I’d like to see M&M X on gog then all the others remade in that style with enhanced graphics. The first 2 games would be the most difficult changing considering how combat and randoms are. The maps would have to be expanded as it plays like a standard dungeon crawler with the old school 2D paper thin walls.

Dunjonquest and like games would be awesome if remade.

Many SSI and like classics remade would be great.
Wizards Crown/Eternal Dagger/Disciples of Steel
Shard of Spring/Demons Winter
Phantasie 1-4
Question 1-2/Legacy of the Ancients/Legend of Blacksilver

TBH, I’d like a retroremake of the ULTIMA series in a different engine similar to U5 but better. I love that there are many indie games in that style. U9 done similar to U5. It wasn’t how Richard worked as he tried to push improvements each game.

I’d also put a nod out to Magdarr series and Realms of Darkness/Rogue Alliance.