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General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
(1687 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 06, 2017
low rated
Thanks for bearing with us in this thread. We’d like to announce that today we’ve introduced the addition of new installers, with implemented GOG Galaxy client.

Like Destro described it back in May, we decided to separate the „new" and „classic” installers, for your choice. So if you don’t care about the features like achievements or cloud-saves and don’t want to use GOG Galaxy, you can download the „Classic Game Installer", just like it was handled before. For games that have new installers, the default download view on „My account” will show the "GOG Galaxy Game Installers" - you will notice that, as it is visibly described in „My account” game view. To download the „classic” ones, just go to „Options" and choose „Classic Installers”.

The new GOG Galaxy Game Installers were added to +100 games - a selection of all games that make use of GOG Galaxy features. I'll post the current list of games with the new installers in a separate post.
Going forward, all new games that will use GOG Galaxy features, will now receive both GOG Galaxy Game Installer and Classic Game Installer.

Introduction of GOG Galaxy Game Installers doesn’t change anything in terms of keeping the Classic Game Installers up to date. As soon as we receive an update for any game, we will prepare an updated version of the classic installer, just like it was done in the past.

Edit: Pinned.
Post edited July 06, 2017 by fables22
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: Once again thank you for your feedback. We hope the above answers your concerns.
Thank you Destro for providing feedback. I can live with the solution of classic installers as long as they remain up-to-date.

And a great, great thank you for your continuous fight for DRM-free games, both new and classic.
Posted May 12, 2017
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sunshinecorp: I don't understand this solution. It makes no sense. Why have two separate installers, one bundled with Galaxy, SOMETHING EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO THE USER, and more work for you to keep them both updated, and not just let the Galaxy users just download a standalone Galaxy (as it is now).

Is it because of the shame of admitting it was a bad idea in the first place? Can't think of any other reason, honestly.
Well that's pretty simple actually :

For basic lamdba "mainstream" users they download the "standard" version and they will have the option the install Galaxy.

For "advanced" users, those who want to backup their collection, who don't want to use Galaxy, who don't want to waste bandwidth and HD space with having Galaxy bundled, they download the "classic" installers, which will be smaller, won't have the opt-out galaxy option, etc... exactly like today.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by Gersen
Posted May 12, 2017
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sunshinecorp: I don't understand this solution. It makes no sense. Why have two separate installers, one bundled with Galaxy, SOMETHING EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO THE USER, and more work for you to keep them both updated, and not just let the Galaxy users just download a standalone Galaxy (as it is now).
I agree that it makes absolutely zero sense. I've been rotating this in my head every which way, and it's just absurd. The whole reason for introducing Galaxy in offline installers was supposedly to have people who have no idea what they're doing get galaxy by default. Now downloading an offline installer with Galaxy will be a choice made before downloading, just like downloading Galaxy itself always was. If you want to use Galaxy, why would you choose to download it with an offline installer? You'd just download Galaxy and download the game through it. That's what it's for, right? I just... what?

On the other hand, does it really matter it makes no sense? To us, I mean? I'd rather have that nonsensical solution, thatn what was supposed to be implemented. So, is the decision pants on head crazy? Yes. Am I happy about it? YES!
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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sunshinecorp: Why have two separate installers, one bundled with Galaxy, SOMETHING EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO THE USER
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ZFR: I imagine the Galaxy one will be "default" on top, while the classic below it, or even under extras?

I honestly don't care. As long as I get my bloatware free installers, updated to the latest version, they can do what they want. Let GOG worry how to handle their non-tech-savvy (ha ha) users.
Yeah, sure. At least it's a solution that caters to us who don't want the bundle. It's still a weird solution though.
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sunshinecorp: I don't understand this solution. It makes no sense. Why have two separate installers, one bundled with Galaxy, SOMETHING EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO THE USER, and more work for you to keep them both updated, and not just let the Galaxy users just download a standalone Galaxy (as it is now).
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Breja: I agree that it makes absolutely zero sense. I've been rotating this in my head every which way, and it's just absurd. The whole reason for introducing Galaxy in offline installers was supposedly to have people who have no idea what they're doing get galaxy by default. Now downloading an offline installer with Galaxy will be a choice made before downloading, just like downloading Galaxy itself always was. If you want to use Galaxy, why would you choose to download it with an offline installer? You'd just download Galaxy and download the game through it. That's what it's for, right? I just... what?

On the other hand, does it really matter it makes no sense? To us, I mean? I'd rather have that nonsensical solution, thatn what was supposed to be implemented. So, is the decision pants on head crazy? Yes. Am I happy about it? YES!
Exactly.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by sunshinecorp
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: 1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
Does that mean that if you use something like gogrepo tool to automatically download all your offline installers, you end up downloading all those games twice, the Galaxy-infested and the Galaxy-free version?

How are you going to offer the classic versions, in the extras? Will they receive all the same updates as the Galaxy-installer versions?

If you go on with this, may I suggest that you somehow clearly name all the installers which have Galaxy embedded? For instance, the file name always includes the string "gog_galaxy", so that it is easier to weed out for those of us who don't want to download the same installers twice? For instance:

Dex (Galaxy version):

setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932)_gog_galaxy.exe
setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932)-1_gog_galaxy.bin

Dex (non-Galaxy version):

setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932).exe
setup_dex_5.4.0.0_(10932)-1.bin

Then it is easier for tools to tell which is the GOG Galaxy version of the installer, in order not to download it.

Note: I didn't suggest using a mere "galaxy" as the string, because you have a couple of games whose name includes "galaxy" already in the filename. It has to be something specific to GOG Galaxy.

Also, naming the "classic" versions as merely "_classic" in the filename isn't a good solution either as you have some other alternative versions already with the word "_classic", plus not all non-Galaxy installers will have that string either (namely those which don't have the Galaxy installer version).

As you can see, you should really plan this carefully. I am a bit surprised you are willling to keep two separate sets of installers (whether they have Galaxy embedded or not) as that is more work to you I suppose, but please understand that having two different sets can be bothersome to many of your users too, unless there is an easy way to automatically differentiate between them.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by timppu
Posted May 12, 2017
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sunshinecorp: I don't understand this solution. It makes no sense. Why have two separate installers, one bundled with Galaxy, SOMETHING EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO THE USER, and more work for you to keep them both updated, and not just let the Galaxy users just download a standalone Galaxy (as it is now).

Is it because of the shame of admitting it was a bad idea in the first place? Can't think of any other reason, honestly.
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Gersen: Well that's pretty simple actually :

For basic lamdba "mainstream" users they download the "standard" version and they will have the option the install Galaxy.

For "advanced" users, those who want to backup their collection, who don't want to use Galaxy, who don't want to waste bandwidth and HD space with having Galaxy bundled, they download the "classic" installers, which will be smaller, won't have the opt-out galaxy option, etc... exactly like today.
Uhm... I understood what they did. I don't get why they did it.
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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Destro: 1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
Can live with that... Thanks for listening to your community! :-)
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: Thank you all for your posts in this topic, especially for all the constructive feedback. We posted on the forums expecting that many of you will be vocal about this. We want to assure you, that we always read your feedback and discuss it internally, even if we don’t always agree with some of it. You are vocal, so it means you care about GOG.com and we really do appreciate it.

Games have changed a lot in the past years and new titles made achievements, cloud saves and other online features become a standard rather than an extra. Sure, some do not care about these functionalities and we understand it. Having said that, we believe that if we offer games with these features advertised to the general public, then the default installation flow is expected to result in a game with these features working out of the box. This is our reasoning for including the option to install GOG Galaxy during the game installation, and we do stand by it.

Yes, there are things which we can do better - there always are. Reading your feedback and giving it a second thought, we decided on the following:
1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
2. As mentioned earlier, we will work on making the GOG Galaxy installer smaller, but at the cost of it being online only.
3. We will launch the new installers in a couple of weeks once point 1 is ready. Point 2 might take a bit longer, but with the “classic” installer option available, this should not affect anyone.

One more thing to keep in mind: everyday we fight to make more great titles available to you, DRM-free. To release many of them we must support their online features, while at the same time developers request ways to automate upload and updating games. Without GOG Galaxy we couldn't offer many of the games we offer today at all, even if you don’t use GOG Galaxy to play or update them.

Once again thank you for your feedback. We hope the above answers your concerns.
Why don't you save yourselves some trouble and just make Galaxy the "new" installer? ;p
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
Alright, still sounds like an unnecessary overly complicated solution but as long as we do have slim "classic" installers, I can live with that...

Thanks for the reply!
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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sunshinecorp: I don't understand this solution. It makes no sense. Why have two separate installers, one bundled with Galaxy, SOMETHING EVEN MORE CONFUSING TO THE USER, and more work for you to keep them both updated, and not just let the Galaxy users just download a standalone Galaxy (as it is now).

Is it because of the shame of admitting it was a bad idea in the first place? Can't think of any other reason, honestly.

New Coke vs Classic Coca Cola
I bet the classic installer will get less updates, like what GOG already doing.
Posted May 12, 2017
high rated
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Destro: Yes, there are things which we can do better - there always are. Reading your feedback and giving it a second thought, we decided on the following:
1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
2. As mentioned earlier, we will work on making the GOG Galaxy installer smaller, but at the cost of it being online only.
3. We will launch the new installers in a couple of weeks once point 1 is ready. Point 2 might take a bit longer, but with the “classic” installer option available, this should not affect anyone.
Thank you, Destro and GOG. Thanks for listening, for responding (a bit late, but better than never) and for agreeing to delay the new installers until this is sorted out. I doubt this will satisfy everyone, but I'm fine with it as long as the 'classic' installers remain easily accessible (and this way I can keep my own Galaxy installation, which I'm happy with, without worrying that it will gradually become mandatory).
Posted May 12, 2017
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sunshinecorp: Uhm... I understood what they did. I don't get why they did it.
We're still talking about GOG. Of course it's utterly complicated how they're going to implement that - I don't get it either but at least they give us a choice now.

It could be so much easier though...
Posted May 12, 2017
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Gersen: Well that's pretty simple actually :

For basic lamdba "mainstream" users they download the "standard" version and they will have the option the install Galaxy.

For "advanced" users, those who want to backup their collection, who don't want to use Galaxy, who don't want to waste bandwidth and HD space with having Galaxy bundled, they download the "classic" installers, which will be smaller, won't have the opt-out galaxy option, etc... exactly like today.
These "advanced" users, like me, backup their collections using tools like gogrepo or lgogdownloader. I don't go through all my 1356 games, clicking on them one by one, manually selecting not to download either the Galaxy or Classic version.

So, how can one automatically differentiate between the Galaxy and classic versions, without having to download both of them? I suggested that e.g. the Galaxy versions would always have the string "_gog_galaxy" in the installer filenames, then automated scripts can omit downloading such files. Then again, for someone else it might be the opposite, they want to download only the Galaxy versions, so how can they omit the classic versions? (Then again I personally feel someone who wants the Galaxy versions, he is already using GOG Galaxy to manage their games.)

Or another way, I suppose, is how they normally differentiate between different language and OS versions, ie. offer filters for Galaxy and non-Galaxy versions, but somehow I feel they are not going to do this.

You see, there are many facets to it, you have to plan it carefully in order not to make it even more confusing and cumbersome. Or course GOG could also state that they don't have to care for people using third-party tools but they only support those who really do click through 1356 games in order to download them one by one, but I feel they should listen to such concerns as well.
Post edited May 12, 2017 by timppu
Posted May 12, 2017
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Breja: I agree that it makes absolutely zero sense. I've been rotating this in my head every which way, and it's just absurd. The whole reason for introducing Galaxy in offline installers was supposedly to have people who have no idea what they're doing get galaxy by default. Now downloading an offline installer with Galaxy will be a choice made before downloading, just like downloading Galaxy itself always was. If you want to use Galaxy, why would you choose to download it with an offline installer? You'd just download Galaxy and download the game through it. That's what it's for, right? I just... what?
Because their belief, and having worked with customer supports I kind of agree is that peoples don't download the "offline installer" version because they don't want Galaxy but because they don't know what Galaxy is or care about it.

They buy a game, they download it, they install it...

...and then they complain because it doesn't have auto-update, achievements, multiplayer, etc... or a client like Steam.

Here those peoples will buy the game, download the "default" installer, install it and then be presented with the option to install Galaxy too, it will be easier for those peoples as they won't have to download Galaxy separately.

That's was the point of bundling Galaxy with the offline installer all along. It never was to force Galaxy to more tech savy users who simply want to backup their games and don't care about a client.
Posted May 12, 2017
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Destro: 1. We clearly noticed - yes, we did - that many of you prefer the old installers (let’s call them “classic”) and prefer to manage their growing libraries manually. Therefore, once we roll out “new” installers with the option to install GOG Galaxy, we will add a separate download of the “classic” ones. Going forward we will offer the option to download “classic” installers whenever a game is offered via a “new” installer.
This seems like the best solution all around, back up installers for those who want them purely for that purpose and a 'full' installer with Galaxy included so you can get all the features straight out of the box if you desire.

Oh look, the world didn't end. Fancy that.
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Community
General discussionOffline installers with an option to install GOG Galaxy(1687 posts)(1687 posts)
(1687 posts)