Could maybe, but I don't accept that you should. So it's fine to have your character kill a kid, but not fine to show your character kill a kid? That seems like a completely arbitrary distinction to me, And in Australia, Planescape Torment got an M rating...

edit: And your comment about "how demon-y the demon could act on screen" really reinforces that you couldn't do something like Amnesia or Silent Hill at a teen rating without completely crippling it. Of course, if you don't like to play games like that, it's your decision, but I am a great fan of both games, and the genre in general.

I did read what you said, and I think its not just a slippery slope but a bad opinion.

If I meant to demean you, I would've went a lot further but I didn't. That's not what I'm trying to do. You're overreacting.

Tell me, could Saving Private Ryan be done in a PG-13 formatted film? Would it benefit the movie if it could? Steven Spielberg would definitely disagree with the notion it should be toned down, he's said in interviews the reason he made it was to present the grim reality of war and more specifically World War II, presenting things as they are in a film like that could simply not be done to meet a PG-13 rating or so many other war films out there.

You also need to understand the rating systems better IMO.

The kids in FO2 have a turn in combat rounds, so I assume you would be able to target them. I always just pickpocketed my stuff back, haha.

Hm. I can see how that would seem to be an arbitrary distinction, but I'll try to explain it. This is hard for me to put into words on an internet forum really late in the day, so I hope this comes across clearly.

I didn't say the choice to kill the kid or the mother is a good choice or a choice I would choose to experience. I just said that it could be done in a T-rated game. It's not a quest I would take if it were in a game i was playing. I was simply responding to your point about not being able to do it in a T-rated game. And yeah, ratings are culture-dependant and imperfect. But that also applies to practically everything else.

Games are a way to do things I don't do in real life. Experience other places, other stories, etc. So when a game contains choices for non-realistic things that's acceptable. But I'm still the person making the choice, and I tend to make choices I would in real life, particularly as the game gets more realistic.

I believe that there are some behaviors and levels of detail that I don't need to experience, that people in general don't need to experience, and that video games are generally sensationalist when they shouldn't be. Graphic and sensationalist depictions of violence and sex aren't good, and when I experience them I impair my ability to live the way I should. Non-graphic / non-sensationalist is a lot better, because it doesn't have the same kind of impact.

Everyone gets to make their choice about what they want to experience as part of their entertainment, and this is mine. My choice doesn't work for everyone, but I believe it's right for me. I'm disappointed that a game I was really interested in probably won't wind up being something I get, but I'd be more disappointed if I did something I don't think is right.

I hope this clears things up a little for you. I'd be happy to take this to PM if you want to keep talking, but I think the thread's had about as much discussion of this as people want. :)

EDIT: Spelling, it's late, sometimes the words come out wrong.

I got to say, HGiles, that I agree with BadDecissions but not with you. If by doing something, you ruin or degrade it, then no, it can't "be done". That's like saying "I can mow my lawn with a blow torch." Yes, the grass is cut short, but the result also defeats the point of having a lawn anyway.

With ratings, it's the same thing. If you think a T rating is more than enough for every single game out there, you're very naive. The truth is, the more freedom you have, the bigger the range of what you can do and what you can make the gamer experience. Shocking people or putting them in front of serious dilemmas is part of that and if you have to cripple that experience to get your T rating, I'm sorry but NO, it can NOT be done. If the end result fails to be as powerful, then it fails full stop. It's not that hard to get.

What you do, is approach this from a "I'm a very sensitive person and I don't want to get exposed to the more powerful stuff". That's your choice like you said, just stick to T rated games - just don't make the ridiculous argument that it's possible to please everyone. I want more mature themes in games myself and I think modern games are far too clean and avoid these mature themes too much. Few games get an M rating so I think we more than deserve some more!

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You're right, it doesn't have the same kind of impact. However this can mean that you miss out on things that have a bigger, more powerful and positive impact.

One of these things for me was the film Barefoot Gen (World War II film about a Hiroshima Bombing survivor), and also the short film My Last Day (which is about the final day of Jesus just before he's crucified).

Both are extremely graphic, but very impactful, presented well, and, most importantly, Historically Accurate. They may not be for you and that's fine, but for anyone who wants a dose of reality and what it looks like when the world can be a cruel place, sometimes even in all of that stuff you realize just how thankful you should be for what you do have and that maybe your life isn't so bad compared to those that have it worse than you. And to see how strong people can be to endure such horrible things or events.

Barefoot Gen

My Last Day
This is good news.

The more money they get, the more polished it will be. Heck who knows this could be the first RPG to feature great combat and a great story all in the same game without a publisher looming over them.

[citation needed]

;)

The best thing about this is there won't be ports on consoles and tablets.

It means, that the game will be from the very scratch designed for PCs. It really may be a big oldschool RPG comeback.

I'm getting excited. Slowly, but steadily.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keiji_Nakazawa

OK, I guess people want to discuss this more?

Like I said, this is where I'm happy. It's not for everyone.

I don't think that modern games avoiding mature themes has anything to do with the rating, though. I think it's because few people take video games seriously as an art form, so thought-provoking and/or serious choices are just not on the radar for most publishers.

Seriously, you can put dilemmas in front of people in a T-rated game. It's a little harder, but it's still totally doable. Games definitely don't have to be rated M to be thought-provoking. It's great that you like M-rated games, but of the T-rated and M-rated games I've seen, mature, nuanced choices is not what caused the difference in rating.

Actually, I'd prefer this topic went into its own thread, if it must continue. Although I personally think it's a dead horse, as neither side is going to agree with the other.

Let's leave this thread to updates and discussion about the game itself please.

Penny Arcade article on Adam Brennecke.

For those discussing the M rating issue,one of the closing paragraphs has some insight into what they're thinking re mature themes.

Oh, also a pic of Cadegund, a female NPC in the game.

Update #10

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=8o8GTA8-EPU

Today's Project Eternity update is shorter and sweeter than usual (at least on the text side), and instead is a fun video from Obsidian's creative director, Chris Avellone. In the video, Chris talks about birthdays, gratitude for fan gratitude, his one really @$!$ messy desk, and some extrapolation of characterization in Project Eternity.

The video is a follow up to his Project Eternity and Characterization blog post over on the Obsidian forums from a few days ago. We encourage you to check it out first if you haven't already, particularly if the process of character design interests you, and then watch the video!

Our next update coming this weekend. Oh, and for those of you who might not know, we successfully hit the $2.0M stretch goal, so chillaxing (that is, chilling and relaxing, in elvish) with some of your favorite companions in your player house is now one more thing you can do in the game!

FORUMS: Join the discussion for Update #10!

That was a kind of... surreal update. Personally, I hope we have at least one companion who's a jerk that's explicitly using you for his/her own reasons.

Oh, and happy 402nd birthday to Chris. :D ...I wish I had a Beaker statue.