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Lucumo: They are just keeping their homepage up to date...
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Top_Gun: It's not "up-to-date," it's ignoring basic web standards while implementing features that only render properly in a single browser, just because it happens to be the most popular choice. Pale Moon is an actively-developed browser that receives frequent security and feature updates, and GOG's sale page is just about the only site I've come across that's fundamentally broken on it. If GOG's design team had just stuck to basic design standards, their site would work fine on every browser on the market. Instead, they're actively locking out a portion of their userbase due to bad practices.
I know, I'm one of the people affected by it too and I've been arguing about it since the redesign in October (and we were finally acknowledged over two months later, just this week). That's also why I used the dotdotdot. Maybe an /s would have been better.
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Lucumo: I know, I'm one of the people affected by it too and I've been arguing about it since the redesign in October (and we were finally acknowledged over two months later, just this week). That's also why I used the dotdotdot. Maybe an /s would have been better.
Heh, sorry, didn't pick up on that. The whole browser situation today really feels like we've traveled 20 years into the past, when it was IE-or-nothing as far as web design was concerned. The more things change...
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Top_Gun: Heh, sorry, didn't pick up on that. The whole browser situation today really feels like we've traveled 20 years into the past, when it was IE-or-nothing as far as web design was concerned. The more things change...
No worries. And well, I made the argument that as a store, they would want to reach as many people as possible. Even IE is important if they ever want to expand into South Korea (where IE has a 26% desktop browser share), as it's either the most or second most important market for PC games in Asia. To no avail. It is as the old saying goes: History repeats itself.
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Top_Gun: The whole browser situation today really feels like we've traveled 20 years into the past, when it was IE-or-nothing as far as web design was concerned. The more things change...
fixing things that were never broken is a modern trend that needs to stop.
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Top_Gun: It's not "up-to-date," it's ignoring basic web standards while implementing features that only render properly in a single browser, just because it happens to be the most popular choice
site works fine on firefox as well btw
haven't seen any complaints from safari or opera users either
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For anyone using Firefox ESR, do any of you realize that it isn't even for consumer use? It exists for the same reason IE11 still exists: For applications that would be dead otherwise. It says so right on the description.

As for your supposedly precious web extensions, I often wonder what's so precious about them aside from fringe and edge cases. I've vaguely heard things about tab groups and tab management, but I've never had enough tabs open at once to actually give a flying monkey about that. (15 tabs.)
Post edited December 14, 2018 by Darvond
PSA: for anyone disliking both Chrome and the latest Firefox as much as I do, you might want to take a look at Waterfox - it retains old plugin compatibility, it has a portable version if you don't want to install a second browser, and most importantly it works with the clusterfuck that is the current GOG front page. You might not want it as a primary browser considering plugin compatibility is not really 100% (or it might work just fine for your ones).
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Darvond: For anyone using Firefox ESR, do any of you realize that it isn't even for consumer use? It exists for the same reason IE11 still exists: For applications that would be dead otherwise. It says so right on the description.
ESR is popular precisely because it doesn't move so fast. When Mozilla introduces bad ideas, such as Australis or WebExtensions, ESR holds out far longer than their regular release cycle.
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Darvond: As for your supposedly precious web extensions, I often wonder what's so precious about them aside from fringe and edge cases. I've vaguely heard things about tab groups and tab management, but I've never had enough tabs open at once to actually give a flying monkey about that. (15 tabs.)
At last count, half my pre-Quantum extensions have no post-Quantum equivalent, and several of those have explicit statements from their authors that the extension cannot be ported to Quantum because Quantum is missing critical APIs required to implement the extension.

Tab management is a big one, but several security extensions are completely broken in Quantum because Mozilla decided it was too dangerous to have the hooks required to implement security-improving extensions.
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advowson: ESR is popular precisely because it doesn't move so fast. When Mozilla introduces bad ideas, such as Australis or WebExtensions, ESR holds out far longer than their regular release cycle. At last count, half my pre-Quantum extensions have no post-Quantum equivalent, and several of those have explicit statements from their authors that the extension cannot be ported to Quantum because Quantum is missing critical APIs required to implement the extension.

Tab management is a big one, but several security extensions are completely broken in Quantum because Mozilla decided it was too dangerous to have the hooks required to implement security-improving extensions.
Alright, I'm curious. Let's walk though those extensions like Stan the Used Ship Salesman™ walks you though options for his ships.
Certificate Patrol: requires hooks that Firefox no longer provides. This cannot be upgraded.

Classic Theme Restorer: gone. WebExtensions are not permitted to theme the browser to the level that XUL extensions could, so this cannot be upgraded.

NoScript: available, but only because the author wrote Firefox patches to add the required interfaces. This one amazes me that such a popular and critical add-on wasn't a sufficient concern for any of the core Mozilla developers for the WebExtension hooks it would need to be part of the base design.

Offline Restart Buttons: gone, no replacement. Fortunately minor, but still very annoying. I don't like the browser automatically loading every page that was open. I want it to restore what it can from cache, and for every uncached page, prepare a tab pointing to that page that loads only when I actively press a button to tell it to load. Starting the browser in offline mode achieved this almost perfectly.

Policeman: dead, can be replaced by another blocking extension. I never found a nice way to copy its rules, so re-whitelisting everything is a huge nuisance.

Priv8: dead, can be partially replaced with Container Tabs. The UI for Container Tabs isn't as good though.

Tab Mix Plus: not available yet, but will supposedly be ported some day. This extension does many things, only some of which I care about.
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advowson: -things-
Well, wrap your chicken in tinfoil and call me a greased monkey, you actually delivered.

So the first one does what now, just checks the security certs? That's something any user can do by clicking that lock ↖️ish. I don't exactly see what this did that you found so important.

You're going to have to explain Classic Theme Restorer and why I should care. As it stood, I never found Firefox themes to be that good to begin with and right now I'm just using the default Oxygen stylings.

Noscript is there, so moving on.

So you want to defer loading until you're ready to activate the tab? I'm pretty sure that's a feature in Chrome these days, dunno if Firefox has such ideas on their github or whatever. Is that what Offline Restart did?

Policeman's github page was worthless for information. But I know for sure that Chrome can set it so that cross frames can require a user gesture or similar. (Note: Anything I say applies to any Chromium built browser, be it Vivaldi, Chromium, Brave, or what have you.) I've never bothered with much blocking beyond what Ublock O provides sooooo

Unless I'm missing something Priv8 just sounds like Incognito Tabs with an extra layer of tinfoil for your head.

Well, go on, tell about the tab mixing and why it's a plus.
FYI for Palemoon users, this is the issue you are most likely having.

Short explanation: gog code uses javascript features introduced in the ES6 (aka ES2015) standard. One of them (classes) Palemoon devs decided not to implement in their browser for now (or rather implement in an "UXP" version, whatever it is and whenever will it happen). So, it's not gog that's not standard-compliant, it's Palemoon :)

Also FYI IE users - ES6 was never implemented in IE to start with, so I'm afraid that with time more and more sites will stop working with it.
Post edited December 17, 2018 by Ghorin
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Darvond: So the first one does what now, just checks the security certs? That's something any user can do by clicking that lock ↖️ish. I don't exactly see what this did that you found so important.
Not exactly. It remembers the last certificate seen, and warns if the certificate presented this time is not the certificate presented on the prior visit. So yes, users can do that with the lock icon, if you don't mind doing it for every single page load and every subresource. That kind of tedium is exactly where automation is a good thing.
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Darvond: You're going to have to explain Classic Theme Restorer and why I should care. As it stood, I never found Firefox themes to be that good to begin with and right now I'm just using the default Oxygen stylings.
I find the post-Australis look to be very ugly. I want Firefox to look like it did in the pre-Fx-20 era. No hamburger menu. Top level menu items (File, Edit, View, History, etc.) broken out, named, and always visible.
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Darvond: Noscript is there, so moving on.
Yep, mentioned only so I could remark on how it needed extra help to get there. I also skipped several extensions that I was able to replace post-Quantum. These are just the ones that are awkward to replace.
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Darvond: So you want to defer loading until you're ready to activate the tab? I'm pretty sure that's a feature in Chrome these days, dunno if Firefox has such ideas on their github or whatever. Is that what Offline Restart did?
I want to load immediately if the content can be loaded from cache. If it cannot be loaded from cache, I want to defer loading until the user actively chooses to load it. Firefox has a deferred load feature, but their idea of "actively chooses" is "User focused on this tab." I don't want that, because it causes uncached pages to reload before I've decided I want them again. Worse, I may have decided I'll never want that page, but I can't close that tab without provoking the browser to load it first.
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Darvond: Policeman's github page was worthless for information. But I know for sure that Chrome can set it so that cross frames can require a user gesture or similar. (Note: Anything I say applies to any Chromium built browser, be it Vivaldi, Chromium, Brave, or what have you.) I've never bothered with much blocking beyond what Ublock O provides sooooo
Yes, Policeman is not unique. Porting years of whitelists to another extension is annoying though.
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Darvond: Unless I'm missing something Priv8 just sounds like Incognito Tabs with an extra layer of tinfoil for your head.
Priv8 has a better user interface, but yes, the core functionality is available elsewhere. One thing I like about Priv8 is that, while focused on the tab, I can see a visual indicator telling me which domain it is in. Firefox's built-in Container Tabs have a bizarre rule that the tab decoration is only visible when you are not focused on the tab. When you focus on it, the colored strip vanishes.

It's not about tinfoil though. I find it useful to be logged in to a site, such as GMail or Github, only in those tabs where I want the logged-in experience. In other tabs, where I might wander to that service through general links, I am logged out. It's also helpful for forums, so that I don't trigger the "Your last visit was on" logic if I want to pop my head in quickly and look around, but leave my "Last visit" time undisturbed for when I can come back and spend time really browsing thoroughly.
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Darvond: Well, go on, tell about the tab mixing and why it's a plus.
Cute. Tab Mix Plus provides extensive options for how to manage tabs differently from the default. I like:
- Override where "Open in new window" links actually open
- Choose where "New Tab" puts the newly opened tab in the tab order.
- Lock tabs. (Force every link to pretend it had a target of _blank, instead of opening in the current tab. Useful if you want to spawn off a lot of new tabs from an index page.)
- Choose which tab-related actions focus a newly created tab versus which ones leave the tab in the background
- Customize the rules for choosing a tab to focus when the current tab closes. I prefer most-recently-viewed, rather than a purely positional setup.
- Customize how undoing a tab closure behaves.
- Customize the appearance of not-yet-read tabs.
- On laptops with bad buttons (or more commonly now, slap-trackpad-to-press pseudo-buttons), focus-follows-cursor saves me a lot of futile tapping when trying to switch tabs. Point at the tab and it becomes focused, no clicking required.

I think that covers most of the Tab Mix Plus options I actually used.
So this is interesting: the main page is slightly less broken than before, albeit still broken. Now I can see the daily deals, but what I'm assuming is the countdown timer displays a lovely Javascript error instead. Still...progress, I guess?
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Top_Gun: So this is interesting: the main page is slightly less broken than before, albeit still broken. Now I can see the daily deals, but what I'm assuming is the countdown timer displays a lovely Javascript error instead. Still...progress, I guess?
still not working in netscape