Posted January 05, 2014
shaddim
New User
Registered: Apr 2012
From Germany
Porkepix
GOG on Linux
Registered: Jun 2013
From France
Posted January 05, 2014
but I will requote this
"remains user resistance to their habits, and I've perfect example at home with my family : Office 2003 and OpenOffice/LibreOffice are 95 to don't say 99% similar for a casual use. "
Casual, do you know what is it? She's not an MSO expert! Short keys? She isn't even able to do ctrl + c/ctrl + v for a copy & paste! So scripts and more complicated short keys? Nah, she use right click and menus like more than 90% of peoples, and looking at this it's exactly the same for a very basic use.
And that's exactly it for most of the usages : for a basic use it will be the same whatever they use.
Walled garden?
1/ Even a proprietary repository will benefit from the dependency side and will be able to download and install what it needs. You never had a dll, library, C++/.net redistributable package and so on missing on Windows? I had. And it's a pain in the ass to see what's the problem. Meanwhile, on Linux, I install with the repos, and it install what it needs and even alert me if there are conflicts between programs/libs and so on.
Adapt the OS with program? Sure you've to do when the OS is incomplete and offer a bad experience (ie. all what I quoted and my previous post as missing on Windows. You can fix some of these problems with programs, sometimes very ugly fixes (cygwin for example), but not all…and that's the bad way to do it.
Linux have…modularity. You install it if you need it and it fit perfectly.
Windows have…patchwork of different things you've to assemble the best you can do to have something which works a little bit as you need…or not.
See the difference? Think to KDE/Gnome and all of what they offer for example. A very big ecosystem for KDE too.
And for another times, YES preinstallation IS a problem. Not the only one as I already said, but it IS a problem.
silviucc
Sultan of Swing
Registered: Apr 2011
From Romania
Posted January 05, 2014
This is disgusting. Instead of discussing how a case could be made for GoG to bring linux support (and assure them that there's no need to support the Rasp. Pi) there's about 50+ pages of dumb flame wars.
Good job guys. Keep feeding the trolls, they gotta eat too, right?
Good job guys. Keep feeding the trolls, they gotta eat too, right?
Porkepix
GOG on Linux
Registered: Jun 2013
From France
Posted January 05, 2014
Good job guys. Keep feeding the trolls, they gotta eat too, right?
About GoG and Linux, I don't really know about gameswhich are not already available on Linux as if the developer/editor don't want it on this OS, GoG can't do a lot except asking them, but they don't weight on a lot I think.
Where I see no issues and still don't understand they don't provide it, it's for the high number of games already available on Linux elsewhere and already sold here : VVVVVV, Dust, Incredipede, Super Hexagon, Megabyte Punch among lots of others…
shmerl
🐧
Registered: Sep 2011
From United States
Posted January 05, 2014
All that could be said to GOG was already said I think. But they decided not to answer anything and remained silent since their last major answer to GoL. Obviously they aren't interested in giving us any status updates, I'm not even sure whether they monitor this thread or not anymore.
Post edited January 05, 2014 by shmerl
shaddim
New User
Registered: Apr 2012
From Germany
Posted January 05, 2014
but I will requote this
"remains user resistance to their habits, and I've perfect example at home with my family : Office 2003 and OpenOffice/LibreOffice are 95 to don't say 99% similar for a casual use. "
Casual, do you know what is it? She's not an MSO expert! Short keys? She isn't even able to do ctrl + c/ctrl + v for a copy & paste! So scripts and more complicated short keys? Nah, she use right click and menus like more than 90% of peoples, and looking at this it's exactly the same for a very basic use.
And that's exactly it for most of the usages : for a basic use it will be the same whatever they use.
While I can agree that functional (on simple to medium level) OO is functional comparable to MS office, on user experience it seems to be too different (shown by your mother).
Another example is GIMP which is functional a fine software, but it also has the most horrible UX (taken out software which has bad functionality too).
1/ Even a proprietary repository will benefit from the dependency side and will be able to download and install what it needs. You never had a dll, library, C++/.net redistributable package and so on missing on Windows? I had. And it's a pain in the ass to see what's the problem. Meanwhile, on Linux, I install with the repos, and it install what it needs and even alert me if there are conflicts between programs/libs and so on.
This means every application needs to be synchronized with an distro and it's libs. If I want to provide packages and deploy the app for linux, this results in support pain and many packages. Take a look at humble library, for linux you need 10 packages where windows is fine with one. Distro-agnostic packaging is a problem. Bundle system (like Autopackage) trying to solve that (bundles are common under windows and MacOS), but facing major resistance by the distros.
Linux have…modularity. You install it if you need it and it fit perfectly.
Windows have…patchwork of different things you've to assemble the best you can do to have something which works a little bit as you need…or not.
See the difference? Think to KDE/Gnome and all of what they offer for example. A very big ecosystem for KDE too.
Or as Ingo Molnar called it: "The basic failure of the free Linux desktop is that it's, perversely, not free enough."
Good job guys. Keep feeding the trolls, they gotta eat too, right?
(Pretending everything is fine and GOG is the one who has to adapt is not helping at all.)
Post edited January 06, 2014 by shaddim
shmerl
🐧
Registered: Sep 2011
From United States
Posted January 05, 2014
shaddim: Stop these rants please. GOG's behavior has nothing to do with any ecosystems. If anything it shows their lack of resources or agility in addressing this issue. Or may be simply lack of interest. Spending years on coming up with support approach starts looking comical already (reminds me of the vaporware story of Duke Nukem Forever).
Post edited January 05, 2014 by shmerl
shaddim
New User
Registered: Apr 2012
From Germany
Posted January 05, 2014
Porkepix
GOG on Linux
Registered: Jun 2013
From France
Posted January 05, 2014
but I will requote this
"remains user resistance to their habits, and I've perfect example at home with my family : Office 2003 and OpenOffice/LibreOffice are 95 to don't say 99% similar for a casual use. "
Casual, do you know what is it? She's not an MSO expert! Short keys? She isn't even able to do ctrl + c/ctrl + v for a copy & paste! So scripts and more complicated short keys? Nah, she use right click and menus like more than 90% of peoples, and looking at this it's exactly the same for a very basic use.
And that's exactly it for most of the usages : for a basic use it will be the same whatever they use.
While I can agree that functional (on simple to medium level) OO is functional comparable to MS office, on user experience it seems to be too different (was proven by you mother).
Another example is GIMP which is functional a fine software, but it also has the most horrible UX (taken out software which has bad functionality too).
1/ Even a proprietary repository will benefit from the dependency side and will be able to download and install what it needs. You never had a dll, library, C++/.net redistributable package and so on missing on Windows? I had. And it's a pain in the ass to see what's the problem. Meanwhile, on Linux, I install with the repos, and it install what it needs and even alert me if there are conflicts between programs/libs and so on.
This means every application needs to be synchronized with an distro and it's libs. If I want to provide packages and deploy the app for linux, this results in support pain and many packages. Take a look at humble library, for linux you need 10 packages where windows is fine with one. Distro-agnostic packaging is a problem. Bundle system (like Autopackage) trying to solve that (bundles are common under windows and MacOS), but facing major resistance by the distros.
"Which means, in linux everything is in sync and permanent under the risk that on app pulled the wrong version and destabilized the complete system" Nope. Again you don't completely red what I said. Never heard about dependency AND conflict checking with repositories? I did. And it does it very well by giving you warning if something is going to break if you force the update of this or this component.
Linux have…modularity. You install it if you need it and it fit perfectly.
Windows have…patchwork of different things you've to assemble the best you can do to have something which works a little bit as you need…or not.
See the difference? Think to KDE/Gnome and all of what they offer for example. A very big ecosystem for KDE too.
Or as Ingo Molnar called it: "The basic failure of the free Linux desktop is that it's, perversely, not free enough."
You want a real terminal? Install cygwin, but it still an ugly patch/fix.
A better FS? Ops, you can not, It's only NTFS or FAT32 (even worse) on older Windows., only HFS+ for MacOS. extX, ZFS, ReiserFS, BTRFS and so on? Meh, useless.
Unicode and UTF-8? Meh, useless, deal with your old ISO-8859-1
A package manager to manage updates and softs from a single place? Ok. Use our latest OS (erk, W8 UI…I will come at it later) with our store, pay our tax and accept the limitations we require and the features or licenses we told you can not choose.
[For Windows only] 0-day security hole? Meh, it can wait next patch-thuesday, can it?
You don't like our very new and beautiful tabled-minded UI from our excellent W8? Just close your mouth and deal with it. We choose, you accept. Nice vision, no?
Good job guys. Keep feeding the trolls, they gotta eat too, right?
(Pretending everything is fine and GOG is the one who has to adapt is not helping at all.)
Or…why Humble Bundle is able to give access to these versions, mmh?
Arkose
sunglasses at night
Registered: Dec 2008
From New Zealand
shmerl
🐧
Registered: Sep 2011
From United States
Posted January 05, 2014
Read their response. GOG explicitly said they are researching support approach. And it takes them years to research apparently. So either GOG are misleading us, or they want to construct a hyper drive.
The Linux version was updated on November 21, 2013. That's the date of the updated package from the Humble Bundle. And, first Linux release happened earlier in 2013 as well.
The Linux version was updated on November 21, 2013. That's the date of the updated package from the Humble Bundle. And, first Linux release happened earlier in 2013 as well.
Post edited January 05, 2014 by shmerl
Arkose
sunglasses at night
Registered: Dec 2008
From New Zealand
cmdr_flashheart
smthing smthing
Registered: Jan 2013
From United States
Posted January 05, 2014
But…everything is fine…
Or…why Humble Bundle is able to give access to these versions, mmh?
Link: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=169648
Post edited January 05, 2014 by cmdr_flashheart
Kristian
New User
Registered: Sep 2008
From Faroe Islands
Posted January 05, 2014
Yeah, yeah we know that GOG wants its Linux users to have nothing rather than something.
Porkepix
GOG on Linux
Registered: Jun 2013
From France
Posted January 05, 2014
But…everything is fine…
Or…why Humble Bundle is able to give access to these versions, mmh?
Link: https://bbs.archlinux.org/viewtopic.php?id=169648
However, you've to know that Archlinux community is from guys that like to go deeply into things and have a distro which is always very up to date. That can cause some issues because it's a lot more up to date than other distros.
But they choose it for this reason among others :)