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I always loved the Internet Archives, discovery some of my favorite books there and I don't think they would make a so big mistake as releasing these games without the proper license...

Well, even if some of the games are been sold in GOG it does not mean that the cannot be legally downloaded elsewhere, nor that having them here is not a good thing. Because of the support, easiness of running, extra materials etc.. etc..
The internet archive has always looked like a respectable site, I'm willing to give them the benefit of the doubt until ecamber receive a reply. I hope that they won't ignore a post from a donator.

Those games have been there for a while so I would think the copyright owners would have reacted by now. In any case from what I heard the games that work in the browser have problems and has for the one that can be downloaded, do they come with a dos emulator all configured?
fire the lawyerpults!
Seems legit...just like all those other games the internet archive has 'released'.
just because a game is sold here does not mean that it is not freely available elsewhere. Some of the titles have had their source code released for free, and others were made free by the rights holders. While all those games, I'm sure aren't legit, just being sold here is not an indication on that since many of the rights holders are no longer together as groups.

what you get here is a GoG installer and some goodies for most games, as well as a DRM free package and something that works on most modern systems. That's worth $2.99 alone on some of these releases.
Interesting. Very interesting.

If all is above board legally [edit: it's probably not], this is an incredible resource. I would assume that if any copyright holders had a problem with it, they would contact archive.org and they would remove any offending materials.

I made an argument once in a thread before that many old games and other pieces of software are not commercially viable to chase after old copyright holders and attempt to obtain rights to sell anymore -- as in, the cost of acquiring legal rights to distribute these titles far outweighs any possible commercial gain. The demand for archaic, yet memorable pieces of software like perhaps "The Colonel's Bequest" and thousands of other titles stuck in legal quagmires is just not what it would need to be in order to lawyer up and go chasing after the intellectual property owners. That in these cases, it would be better if a non-profit or government funded organization were to accumulate funds to lobby and change certain laws on abandoned intellectual property such that they become public domain if no claim is made.

Perhaps archive.org could be that very non-profit entity which could do this?
Post edited January 06, 2015 by the.kuribo
So doing a bit of digging around archive.org on copyright legalities and it appears they operate on an exclusion policy:

What is the Wayback Machine's Copyright Policy?

The Internet Archive respects the intellectual property rights and other proprietary rights of others. The Internet Archive may, in appropriate circumstances and at its discretion, remove certain content or disable access to content that appears to infringe the copyright or other intellectual property rights of others. If you believe that your copyright has been violated by material available through the Internet Archive, please provide the Internet Archive Copyright Agent with the following information:

Identification of the copyrighted work that you claim has been infringed;
An exact description of where the material about which you complain is located within the Internet Archive collections;
Your address, telephone number, and email address;
A statement by you that you have a good-faith belief that the disputed use is not authorized by the copyright owner, its agent, or the law;
A statement by you, made under penalty of perjury, that the above information in your notice is accurate and that you are the owner of the copyright interest involved or are authorized to act on behalf of that owner;
Your electronic or physical signature.
Internet Archive uses the exclusion policy intended for use by both academic and non-academic digital repositories and archivists. See our full exclusion policy.

The Internet Archive Copyright Agent can be reached as follows:

Internet Archive Copyright Agent
Internet Archive
300 Funston Ave.
San Francisco, CA 94118
Phone: 415-561-6767
Email: info at archive dot org
Furthermore, it appears that copyright status for materials on the site are never guaranteed, and rights are to be researched by uploaders before upload, as per this information:

Rights
Can I use this ____ for ____ ?


Internet Archive does not itself seek to limit use of its digital materials. However, we cannot give ironclad guarantees as to the copyright status of items in our Collections and cannot guarantee information posted on items’ details or collection pages regarding copyright or other intellectual property rights. Our terms of use (https://www.archive.org/about/terms.php) require that users make use of Internet Archive's Collections at their own risk and ensure that such use is non-infringing and in accordance with all applicable laws.

The person who uploads an item often provides information related to use rights, either by way of directly entering it in the description field or by selection of a Creative Commons license. The latter, if included by the uploader, will be viewable via a Creative Commons logo on the details page, which serves as a link to a description of the specific type of license that the uploader has assigned.

One way to attempt to contact an uploader about information that they have posted is to post a review to the item.

The Internet Archive follows the Oakland Archive Policy for Managing Removal Requests And Preserving Archival Integrity.
It would seem that an uploader who put something on the site that they were not legally able to do so would bear the brunt of the lawsuits or whatever that would be forthcoming. Archive.org would remove anything which is requested of them to do so, and only the uploader and users of the things on their site are responsible and liable for damages as according to their terms of service.

So I think the message is still: use at your own discretion and risk. I wonder now actually if physical libraries operate on this same principle?
Post edited January 06, 2015 by the.kuribo
I'm fairly sure that the Internet Archive had some legal theory, status or exemption behind this. I don't remember what exactly it was, it seems they are abusing it. Probably they were supposed to - legally - archive software that was at risk of otherwise disappearing forever, but if it's still been sold, it doesn't seem as such.

Unless what they have is clear and pristine preservation copies of the games as they were originally published and sold, needing to be saved from the degradation of the media - what I'm referring to here is low-level disk images, lower than just .img, see for example softpres.org for more information - but this doesn't really look like it.
Legal things aside, playing via browser, isn't it the ultimate DRM? Does it require an internet connection?
Like Diablo III or Elite: Dangerous?
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Huinehtar: Legal things aside, playing via browser, isn't it the ultimate DRM? Does it require an internet connection?
Like Diablo III or Elite: Dangerous?
Sure, but you can also download the files from the internet archive via HTTPS or Torrent.
They have the formal status of a museum and making them playable in the browser is like an exhibition.
Not all titles are available for download.
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the.kuribo: So doing a bit of digging around archive.org on copyright legalities and it appears they operate on an exclusion policy:

What is the Wayback Machine's Copyright Policy?
[...]
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the.kuribo: It would seem that an uploader who put something on the site that they were not legally able to do so would bear the brunt of the lawsuits or whatever that would be forthcoming. Archive.org would remove anything which is requested of them to do so, and only the uploader and users of the things on their site are responsible and liable for damages as according to their terms of service.

So I think the message is still: use at your own discretion and risk. I wonder now actually if physical libraries operate on this same principle?
Thanks,
Also from the terms of use: "Access to the Archive’s Collections is provided at no cost to you and is granted for scholarship and research purposes only."
You can take a look at and research the games only, not even classical recreational "use" is permitted, as the games are not redistributed, gifted handed out or whatever by the Internet Archive. And people who download them don't get a rightful ownership on the copy. Unlike a gog buy, where at least in Europa, ownership is transferred.

Seems the concept is significant different to the GOG concept, so I guess law-wise both coexisting side-by-side could be legit.

While the approach of the IA is much more effective in preserving games, as gog has to get individual copyrights, which is tedious and for some games impossible.
Post edited January 06, 2015 by shaddim
All of these archive/abandonware/pirate sites make these claims. Every once in awhile, you run across one with integrity,l but those are few and less popular. The best way to tell if it is honestly trying to be legit or not is to look at the games they offer. If a lot of them are games you see for sale or belong companies which are clearly still around such as Blizzard, they are not legit.
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RWarehall: All of these archive/abandonware/pirate sites make these claims. Every once in awhile, you run across one with integrity,l but those are few and less popular. The best way to tell if it is honestly trying to be legit or not is to look at the games they offer. If a lot of them are games you see for sale or belong companies which are clearly still around such as Blizzard, they are not legit.
Sure, but these sites (and now the IA) solve a legit purpose, the preservation of lost classical software, which are largely unavailable for the public and science. While GOG (and others) preserved &made available again a handful of classics, it is a small fraction only, the IA approach could save thousands & all.

The gog approach will be always incomplete, infact we need another solution for the general abandonware/orphan works problem. Good that the IA is brave enough to test the boundaries here and bring this topic again in the mind of public and maybe lawmakers.
Post edited January 06, 2015 by shaddim
Its a scam for piracy. Pirate sites these days always claim they are doing it for preservation. They have Diablo 2 on the site. Clearly a pirate site. Any legitimate site would avoid titles which are obviously still available.