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alexandros050: If they give away his personal information can't he just file a lawsuit ? That's what I would do at least because who knows what the crazy people at resetra might do to him
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RWarehall: Unfortunately, journalists often get away with a lot of unethical crap and defamation. First, there is a lot of legal nuance surrounding "journalism" and "free speech" and then there is the concept that legal disputes can be dragged out forever as ever increasing legal costs which favor big corporations like news conglomerates. It really takes someone with the resources and popularity of Hulk Hogan to have a chance at succeeding.
Newspapers print more than just names and sometimes they are justified in doing so.The main problem with the articles is they're full of rubbish creating outrage for their own benefit at the expense of ours.
Post edited October 26, 2018 by Spectre
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Spectre: Newspapers print more than just names and sometimes they are justified in doing so.The main problem with the articles is they're full of rubbish creating outrage for their own benefit at the expense of ours.
That and violating the journalistic code of ethics. Journalists are supposedly committed to minimizing harm and releasing any personal information like they just did on top of tying it into so-called "alt-right" rhetoric is tantamount to inciting more harassment. That article is practically begging it's readers to harass him more. This is what's wrong with a lot of "gaming journalism" (frankly a lot of main-stream journalism as well lately).

The journalistic mission is to inform the public in a responsible manner. You can't tell me that article was responsible reporting.
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Enebias: I hope the resetera "paladin" gets convicted.
I assure you there's no relation. ;)

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Bookwyrm627: Please don't sully paladins via this association.

Let paladins sully their profession with their own mis-deeds.
THANK YOU.... Wait.. wut?
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WinterSnowfall: I'm all for unleashing the Kraken to be honest, let everyone say what they want when they want, with an automated filtering and banning system in place. People can of course get angry at computers and bits of code too, but code tends to have an immunity to aggression and other human niceties.
I don't know if you were serious with your post, but such a system wouldn't work, for any number of reasons, and would only annoy legitimate users.
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kohlrak: You can't suggest you're for free speech while simultaneously prohibiting it. When threads are civil, or at least regained civility after a period of hellfire, locking comes off as feeding the flames, as well. If you honestly want free speech with civility, target users without civility, not topics.
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Konrad: I do agree with you on this hence my personal dislike for nuking threads. It doesn't promote open or civil conversation, it just shuts everything down.

But that's also why forums such as these (but certainly not just these) are not really a reliable platform for exercising your free speech, as frustrating as that can be sometimes. When it comes to companies, platforms, or what have you, setting boundaries – it's just pragmatic, and I might even argue that it's the fair thing to do.

After all, free speech is a big deal, I don't know that any private entity out there is truly equipped to properly handle that kind of responsibility.
Somehow i missed this when responding.

You're absolutely right, most aren't equipped to properly handle that. That's kind of the big point, too, especially of one of the threads that got locked: these people went after gog (and it seemingly appears a gog employee personally, at home, and his family) over something that he said. It's untenable to moderate, 'cause the border betwixed what is and is not OK is constantly shifting. The boundries that everyone sets, they constantly move. You aren't even equipped to handle the moving boundries of what people find acceptable of your twitter. And, ultimately, the argument from my side of the identity politics game says "yo, not only can you not predict what is and isn't offensive from one moment to the next, there's nothing you can even do to please these people so that they leave you alone." You're damned if you do, or damned if you don't.

Ultimately, you have to choose whether or not you are on the free speech side (platform, as anything that is not total free speech is legally not considered a platform) or you are not (publisher, which facebook and twitter are ultimaately dealing with an upcoming battle over this, as it ultimately defines liability for things posted). This is one of those things that companies get themselves into when they make forums: they actually could end up being held liable for what users post if they make moderations that don't strictly adhere to laws. It's just one of things that has never really been enforced, but has been law in many (if not most) countries for a good long time now. Ultimately, what companies aren't equipped for is having forums while claiming to have control over them, while pretending to support free speech. The idea of having forums at all, really, is untenable in an age where we seem to continue to believe that moderation actually controls conversation: if you allow for free speech, you get blasted by the media, but if you shut it down, you get blasted by your customer base (and potentially legally by the same media that blasts you for allowing free speech).

I think the whole point is to make it untenable to have discussion places on the internet, forcing centralization where certain entities can then control things. Take some time outside of work to look at what people (who are directly discussing the free speehc issue) are saying on both sides, as it's to the point that we're ultimately in agreement that free speech inevitably means hurt feelings as the price for holding truth to power: everyone's just arguing whether or not it's better to hold truth to power or if hurting feelings is another form of power that presents a tangible form of oppression. It's a power game, and most places with forums, frankly, are too busy focusing on their thing to see the big picture and their ultimate part in it. And, with all things political, these companies are being drug into this battle, especially if they don't want any part in it, 'cause the nature of politics is that it comes for you whether you like it or not. You can't hide from it, you can't protect yourself from it, it will always find a way to pry into your life. The more you try to run from it, the more of an angle you give one side or another to manipulate you into what they want.


EDIT: To clarify, one side of this debate wants to propose laws that play with what you are held responsible for as a "platform," while the other side wants you to be held responsible for even playing the games of the first side.
Post edited October 27, 2018 by kohlrak
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CharlesGrey: I don't know if you were serious with your post, but such a system wouldn't work, for any number of reasons, and would only annoy legitimate users.
I was only half-serious. It would work, as any other automation works in this day and age, but of course it wouldn't be perfect. But then again is the current way of handling things perfect? Would you considering it a working system based on the info included in this thread? Does the current system not annoy people?

I would not take this topic too far, but something of a curse-word quota per user banning mechanism would not be that horrible perhaps. At least it could make things more interesting since everyone who wants to step beyond the line would have to come up with euphemisms.

Again, don't take me too serious, it's just a thought - after all I'm only a semi-delusional engineer. I see a problem and immediately think of coming up with something that would fix it, or at least try not to end up making it worse.
Post edited October 27, 2018 by WinterSnowfall
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Konrad: I do agree with you on this hence my personal dislike for nuking threads. It doesn't promote open or civil conversation, it just shuts everything down.

But that's also why forums such as these (but certainly not just these) are not really a reliable platform for exercising your free speech, as frustrating as that can be sometimes. When it comes to companies, platforms, or what have you, setting boundaries – it's just pragmatic, and I might even argue that it's the fair thing to do.

After all, free speech is a big deal, I don't know that any private entity out there is truly equipped to properly handle that kind of responsibility.
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richlind33: Let's cut to the chase: there is no place for free speech in societies dominated by elitists whose primary concern is self-gratification, because their domination can only be maintained by controling the flow of information and keeping the masses disunited and anesthetized. Consequently, we produce people that are psychologically and emotionally stunted, that have only minimal self-understanding, and are largely incapable of meeting their needs because their energies are chiefly directed towards the pursuit of pleasure. And to a great extent, our species has been destroyed. We are infantile compared to what we could be if we realized our potential. And even though our situation is now grave, we do little or nothing to improve it, because we don't know how. So best not to think about it -- until the knife is at your throat and you briefly come to your senses.
Probably a better summary than what i wrote, and a lot less disorganized. Right now, the knife is at GOG's throat, kinda. It's only going to get bettter from here.

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kohlrak: Linko got doxed?
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fronzelneekburm: Hell yeah, he got doxxed!

Here's a quote from an article that - preposterously enough - tries to spin the incident into evil alt-right youtubers trying to get people worked up about the brave SJWs who did nothing wrong.

Have a choice quote:

The piece argues that “the grievance cops” are “bringing their harassment to the next level” by “doxing and harassing the families” of GOG employees.
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fronzelneekburm: Here's another quote from later the article:

Cheong’s video goes on to claim that “the mob” doxed a social media manager, inviting harassment to the employee and their family. A source close to the incident confirmed to the Daily Dot that a GOG employee’s family members were receiving ongoing harassing calls since the GOG controversy began. However, that source could not confirm that the employee’s home address and phone number were posted on ResetEra.
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fronzelneekburm: So, you put these two quotes from the same article together. What exactly are these "alt-right gamers" from the headline lying about? The doxxing, the harassment and the attempts to get Linko fired are apparently very real, as confirmed right there in the article.

“The maximum amount of personal information posted on this person that I’ve seen is: 1. his name, 2. the fact that he works [at GOG], 3. any of the other stuff in the thread, if that even counts as personal?” bootsy told the Daily Dot. “The issue is, this person had put into their bio that they were GOG social media. They weren’t trying to hide, it wasn’t private info. The idea that this constitutes doxing is questionable at best.”
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fronzelneekburm: So, "bootsy" (the Twitter user that doxxed Linko) "only" dug up Linko's real name, his workplace, his LikedIn-page, his Twitter and even an article he wrote for some other website all the way back in 2015. If that isn't doxxing, I don't know what is. It was obviously enough information, since Linko's FAMILY is receiving ongoing harassing calls.

...over a fucking HASHTAG.
Thanks for the heads up. It's good to know that the doxing mob is now ultimately going to be coming after GOG employees, and probably gog users as well who don't tow a certain political line.
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Bookwyrm627: Please don't sully paladins via this association.

Let paladins sully their profession with their own mis-deeds.
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paladin181: THANK YOU.... Wait.. wut?
:D

Not you. I was more thinking of the stereotypical D&D paladin, many of whom seem to have the proverbial stick in the proverbial uncomfortable place.
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Spectre: Newspapers print more than just names and sometimes they are justified in doing so.The main problem with the articles is they're full of rubbish creating outrage for their own benefit at the expense of ours.
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RWarehall: That and violating the journalistic code of ethics. Journalists are supposedly committed to minimizing harm and releasing any personal information like they just did on top of tying it into so-called "alt-right" rhetoric is tantamount to inciting more harassment. That article is practically begging it's readers to harass him more. This is what's wrong with a lot of "gaming journalism" (frankly a lot of main-stream journalism as well lately).

The journalistic mission is to inform the public in a responsible manner. You can't tell me that article was responsible reporting.
" full of rubbish creating outrage for their own benefit at the expense of ours."

Of course if he didn't put his information up there it wouldn't have been as easy to get.
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richlind33: Let's cut to the chase: there is no place for free speech in societies dominated by elitists whose primary concern is self-gratification, because their domination can only be maintained by controling the flow of information and keeping the masses disunited and anesthetized. Consequently, we produce people that are psychologically and emotionally stunted, that have only minimal self-understanding, and are largely incapable of meeting their needs because their energies are chiefly directed towards the pursuit of pleasure. And to a great extent, our species has been destroyed. We are infantile compared to what we could be if we realized our potential. And even though our situation is now grave, we do little or nothing to improve it, because we don't know how. So best not to think about it -- until the knife is at your throat and you briefly come to your senses.
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kohlrak: Probably a better summary than what i wrote, and a lot less disorganized. Right now, the knife is at GOG's throat, kinda. It's only going to get bettter from here.
I'm referring to the world at large, because dialog is the only way to solve the problems that are destroying our societies. But most of us are so wrapped up in our day to day affairs and our pet issues that we don't really care about the big picture, and so it goes. : (
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richlind33: I'm referring to the world at large, because dialog is the only way to solve the problems that are destroying our societies. But most of us are so wrapped up in our day to day affairs and our pet issues that we don't really care about the big picture, and so it goes. : (
+++
low rated
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kohlrak: Probably a better summary than what i wrote, and a lot less disorganized. Right now, the knife is at GOG's throat, kinda. It's only going to get bettter from here.
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richlind33: I'm referring to the world at large, because dialog is the only way to solve the problems that are destroying our societies. But most of us are so wrapped up in our day to day affairs and our pet issues that we don't really care about the big picture, and so it goes. : (
Right, but it no less applies to GOG. GOG is basically "normies," and as typical normies it applies.

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RWarehall: That and violating the journalistic code of ethics. Journalists are supposedly committed to minimizing harm and releasing any personal information like they just did on top of tying it into so-called "alt-right" rhetoric is tantamount to inciting more harassment. That article is practically begging it's readers to harass him more. This is what's wrong with a lot of "gaming journalism" (frankly a lot of main-stream journalism as well lately).

The journalistic mission is to inform the public in a responsible manner. You can't tell me that article was responsible reporting.
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Spectre: " full of rubbish creating outrage for their own benefit at the expense of ours."

Of course if he didn't put his information up there it wouldn't have been as easy to get.
Good to know where you stand. Mind being a little more open for the normies? Do you think it's OK to open someone and their family up to physical attacks for their political opinion?
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kohlrak: Good to know where you stand. Mind being a little more open for the normies? Do you think it's OK to open someone and their family up to physical attacks for their political opinion?
I think you are reading Spectre wrong, he seems to generally agree if I'm reading him correctly.
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kohlrak: Good to know where you stand. Mind being a little more open for the normies? Do you think it's OK to open someone and their family up to physical attacks for their political opinion?
Did I say that?
WTF is a "normie"? :P