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General discussionI wish more people played classic cRPGs(65 posts)(65 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted June 15, 2015
As the topic title says, I really wish more people played classic cRPGs like the early Wizardry, Ultima and Might and Magic games. I have posted a couple threads with some interesting information (including things like HP overflow in MM3) and haven't received any responses. Not to mention Dragon Wars, which was released here recently but the subforum seems to have died.

I actually prefer the really old games because, to me, they are what RPGs are. Baldur's Gate tends to have things happening a little too fast sometimes (especially if you're late on the pause button), and many other games commonly called RPGs are really just action games with RPG elements. (There are many other issues with the Infinity Engine games; too many for a post on the general forum, actually.)

Of course, I can enjoy games that don't fit this description. I have been playing some of the Ys games lately, for example, but sometims I want some nice traditional turn-based fun without annoying cutscenes in the way.

I would just like some people to talk to on the subforums for these older games about things other than technical issues.

By the way, Elminage Gothic is on sale right now.

(Of note, I actually do consider Baldur's Gate a bit too modern for my tastes, even if at least some of the flaws (like low accuracy at low levels) are old-school in nature.)
Posted June 15, 2015
Do games like Arx Fatalis (spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld) count towards this genre?
Posted June 15, 2015
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Do games like Arx Fatalis (spiritual successor to Ultima Underworld) count towards this genre?
I have not played Arx Fatalis or Ultima Underworld, but my understanding is that Ultima Underworld is not turn-based and is therefore not exactly the sort of game I am really interested in for this purpose.
On the other hand, if those games are the same type of game as Dungeon Master, they are at least more RPG-ish than something like the Ys series.
Posted June 15, 2015
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dtgreene: As the topic title says, I really wish more people played classic cRPGs like the early Wizardry, Ultima and Might and Magic games. I have posted a couple threads with some interesting information (including things like HP overflow in MM3) and haven't received any responses. ...
The individual game forums are not widely used. My theory is that this is due in part to most people having had played those old games already. So, when they do crack them open again, it's likely not going to be at the same time as a whole bunch of other people who also played the game way back when.

And If I do crack open, say, Arcanum, and after a few hours think, "Hmm, I'll go check the GOG Arcanum forum!" Well, I find some really old posts, and so I don't reply to them.

Cheers.
Posted June 15, 2015
My big beef has always been a lack of free time.
Posted June 15, 2015
I got to say the game boards on GoG are pretty weak (aside from recent major releases). I seem to have much better luck on Steam with my questions on older games. I guess its just a user base issue rather than an activity issue. Come to think of it, Gamefaqs has better game forums then GoG as well.
Posted June 15, 2015
I agree with misteryo - it's not that no one is playing, but especially for games that aren't part of a larger series there's just not enough happening routinely to make the forums functional and draw people back when they don't actively have a question.

I'm not sure 'bundled' genre forums would be an answer either, but the current subforums are generally too fragmented imo.

For me, I picked up Elminage as a key early in the sale, and haven't decided whether to gift or use myself. Won Eschalon in a GA and am really enjoying it so far.
Posted June 15, 2015
Someone who feels Baldur's Gate is too modern, clearly is... part of a very small group.
I, personally, love RPGs, it's my favourite genre by far. The very best game of all time, in my opinion, is Gothic II: Night of the Raven. You could call them Action-RPGs, sure, but they largely focus on story and atmosphere, something old games tend to be unable to communicate to me in an exciting way. Voiced dialogue and a vivid and moving world helped a lot.

That doesn't mean I don't enjoy cRPGs at all, though. And there surely is a small market. But I wouldn't hold my breath and expect them to become really popular again for the generations to come, right?
Posted June 15, 2015
I've beaten them at their prime time (or so), have no intention to play games with outdated graphics anymore. My eyes hurt.

I still play HOMM3 though it's a real gem.
Post edited June 15, 2015 by zeroxxx
Posted June 15, 2015
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dtgreene: As the topic title says, I really wish more people played classic cRPGs like the early Wizardry, Ultima and Might and Magic games. I have posted a couple threads with some interesting information (including things like HP overflow in MM3) and haven't received any responses. ...
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misteryo: The individual game forums are not widely used. [...]
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LJChronx: I got to say the game boards on GoG are pretty weak (aside from recent major releases). I seem to have much better luck on Steam with my questions on older games. I guess its just a user base issue rather than an activity issue. Come to think of it, Gamefaqs has better game forums then GoG as well.
It really does vary quite a bit from game to game. Some lesser-known games, such as some of the Soldak titles, and many of the permanently free ones, have forums that go without a single post for -- in some cases -- two or three months at a time. Newer titles, and ones universally considered classics (like the Baldur's Gates), generally have more activity. Also, games in a series that share a single game forum generally have more regular activity than many single-game forums do -- the Might and Magic series' forum seems to have at least a couple posts a day, for example (kind of a lot, compared to some other games/series), which is interesting, considering the age of those games, and the fact that the Heroes series has its own forum, and thus doesn't add to the traffic.

But, yes, of course many other sites are going to have much larger and/or more regularly active game forums; GOG is still a smallish fish in a vast lake, and if a game's on Steam, and a given user is on Steam, and said user's question regarding said game is not specific to the GOG version, then it makes sense to go where the biggest pool of knowledge is.
Posted June 15, 2015
I typed up a lengthy reply to Urnoev's post, but my network connection was dropped and this forum software doesn't handle that case well.

In case you're wondering, I talked about Wizardry IV's atmosphere (it's a really unique game), some of the problems with WRPGs favoring realism (dead characters dropping equipment and inability to trade to far-away characters) and how I wish RPGs had evolved differently. (WRPGs abandoned turn-based gameplay, while JRPGs became too linear with too many non-interactive cutscenes.)
Posted June 15, 2015
I prefer the classic style of crpgs as well. I don't begrudge those who enjoy the newer FPS and Action style of rpgs, I just happen to suck at anything involving real-time combat (whether it's solo or party based). I gave them a try, I really did, and I found the stuff I played in the past where the ones wanted to play again...

Might & Magic (I've replayed 3-5)
The Bard's Tale (just restarting that series for the first time since originally playing it)
Fallout 1 & 2

...and others that I only discovered since coming to GOG...

Arcanum (which I played 3 times since then with 3 different characters)
Geneforge (played the first 2, love the setting!)

...and there are still quite a few on my backlog...

Eschalon
Avernum
Avadon (I'm probably 1/2 - 2/3 through the 1st one)

...but yeah, I am totally a classic-style crpg fan. :-)
Posted June 15, 2015
I don't necessarily have a problem with real-time combat in general, but I do have a problem when people try to pass those games off as RPGs. Take a typical video of a boss battle from the Ys series. Does that look like an RPG to you? To me it just looks like an action game, with all the dodging and collision based attacks involved. (By collision based, I mean that the game checks for a collision to tell whether an attack hits, rather than rolling dice.)

Many of the problems come when people try to make games that combine aspects of the two genres in inappropriate ways. Turn-based combat has the advantage that the player has time to think and can easily control multiple characters, making AI control of party members not mandatory. (It can sometimes be fun; see Wizardry IV for a turn-based RPG where your allies are alll AI controlled. Well, except when that monster you summoned decides to run away.) Collision-based accuracy is good for games that are more tests of player skill and reflexes, which is appropriate for an action game. (Imagine if, in a Mario game, a fireball had a 50% chance, rolled via the RNG, of hitting something. Wouldn't feel right.) What some developers have done is make games that have neither; you don't get a chance to plan your actions, yet you don't get meaningful action gameplay either.

Another, related example is character growth systems. Character growth systems work well in single player games, but become less good in multiplayer games. There is no realistic way a developer can make an adventure that can accomodate both your level 22 character and your friend's 1384 while being equally fun for both. It gets even worse when it comes to competitive gameplay. How am I, a newbie (and hence with less experience with the game) with a level 22 character, supposed to have any chance of beating you, a veteran with a level 1384? It's just a bad mechanic in this case. (I don't actually play multiplayer games myself, but I do see an obvious issue here.)

As a side note, I have been thinking of writing my own first person dungeon crawler. It will be similar to Wizardry in its basic structure and will have turn based combat. However, I am planning on having a different growth system and staying away from the Level/Experience growth system that has become near-universal in RPGs (and these days, even in other genres, including competitive FPSs where it doesn't belong).
Post edited June 15, 2015 by dtgreene
Posted June 15, 2015
If you want serious discussion about classic CRPGs then RPGCodex.net is probably your best bet.

But note that there are no net nannies monitoring every word written there, and if you are the sensitive type I suggest avoiding any but the game related forums.
Posted June 15, 2015
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dtgreene: I don't necessarily have a problem with real-time combat in general, but I do have a problem when people try to pass those games off as RPGs. Take a typical video of a boss battle from the Ys series. Does that look like an RPG to you? To me it just looks like an action game, with all the dodging and collision based attacks involved. (By collision based, I mean that the game checks for a collision to tell whether an attack hits, rather than rolling dice.)

Many of the problems come when people try to make games that combine aspects of the two genres in inappropriate ways. Turn-based combat has the advantage that the player has time to think and can easily control multiple characters, making AI control of party members not mandatory. (It can sometimes be fun; see Wizardry IV for a turn-based RPG where your allies are alll AI controlled. Well, except when that monster you summoned decides to run away.) Collision-based accuracy is good for games that are more tests of player skill and reflexes, which is appropriate for an action game. (Imagine if, in a Mario game, a fireball had a 50% chance, rolled via the RNG, of hitting something. Wouldn't feel right.) What some developers have done is make games that have neither; you don't get a chance to plan your actions, yet you don't get meaningful action gameplay either.

Another, related example is character growth systems. Character growth systems work well in single player games, but become less good in multiplayer games. There is no realistic way a developer can make an adventure that can accomodate both your level 22 character and your friend's 1384 while being equally fun for both. It gets even worse when it comes to competitive gameplay. How am I, a newbie (and hence with less experience with the game) with a level 22 character, supposed to have any chance of beating you, a veteran with a level 1384? It's just a bad mechanic in this case. (I don't actually play multiplayer games myself, but I do see an obvious issue here.)

As a side note, I have been thinking of writing my own first person dungeon crawler. It will be similar to Wizardry in its basic structure and will have turn based combat. However, I am planning on having a different growth system and staying away from the Level/Experience growth system that has become near-universal in RPGs (and these days, even in other genres, including competitive FPSs where it doesn't belong).
Do you mean cRPG is turn base RPG? like Divinity Original Sin?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionI wish more people played classic cRPGs(65 posts)(65 posts)
(65 posts)