Oh wow, I see a lot of interesting stuff has happened since last night. I might have time to catch up at work today, but it's going to be a weird day here today so I'm not sure how busy I'll be.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Didn't I already say that I've been watching you build up to something to get out of being caught red-handed?


And this, lady and gents, is what anti-spew looks like. Or is it reverse anti-spew? Doesn't really matter, I think.


This

and this

is the talk of caught scum.



Funny how dedoporno who was dead set on getting people's claim flavour hasn't volunteered his own. I bet it's going to be delicious.


Ambiti0nZ made a good point in post #915, so nobody else vote for now.


I've got two posts coming up, if someone's around, please bump.

pomp

OK, looking into dedoporno's interactions, reads and votes.

If I calculated correctly and nothing else changes, we still have only 2 mislynches, but an additional Night and Day to put info together and win. Having caught a scum that was on the D1 lynch wagon, there are two scenarios here:
(1) the other one was off wagon, aka the PoE, and
(2) the other one was on wagon, with them being an early voter that made them look good.

(1) Off Wagon
Looking into the PoE, it's babark, Catte, and detective_razza.
I'm taking out detective_razza, based on her D3 and general play, plus dedoporno openly shading her when he saw he couldn't manipulate the thread in his favour, after talking about even a derpclear (#768).

That leaves babark and Catte. If the remaining scum is here, we can go through both of them, before it gets really hairy.

Catte
-- In dedoporno's D1 big read-list (#338), bucktoothgamer, Catte and RWarehall receive an open-ended read.
- He votes babark (#202), then reluctantly unvotes him (#338) and votes Catte (#340).
- Catte gets no other votes D1, and he sits on him, all alone for the rest of the Day, until he places his vote on butcktoothgamer at the very end.

-- On D2, he lists his PoE (#571), cleverly done in the order of the OP. That Day he gives opinions on various people, some move to the townie side, some into the opposite, the only one that still gets an open-end read is Catte (#482). Posts #612 and #667 stand out:
- Post #612 (for context, read what he says right before he votes): he votes detective_razza at a point where Catte had 3 votes (ZFR, RWarehall, Dessimu), and detective_razza only the stale vote of absent!Ambiti0nZ (#486).
- Post #667, after RWarehall claims and his wagon goes poof, he says things that feel guilt-trippy about Catte (read for yourselves), which he hasn't done when the one resorting to AtE wasn't his scum-buddy.
- And right after that, he suggests a babark lynch, subtly as a question to all but without placing a vote. Which wouldn't be bad in and of itself (we jumped on it) IF he hadn't just expressed concerns about revealing yet another PR. Was there a guarantee that babartk wasn't one? No, and one may say that there wasn't a guarantee that he was one either. True, except that dedoporno had noticed babark's questions (#519 & #550) as can be seen in posts #523 & #571; he's smart, plus we all know how wagons go when convincing PR claims come into play. You (plural) may want to consider this in favour of babark.
- He never voted Catte D2, and sat on detective_razza until post #644.

-- ToDay, he's had a little disagreement with Catte about what the NK is/could be, and lists him as his Vig-shot in JoeSapphire's 3 name challenge.
An interesting thing from Catte's side is that although he had the same disagreement about the NK with dedoporno and JoeSapphire, he seems to have given a pass to the former, and voted the latter based on bad feelings he still has - that's his reasoning for voting well into D3. Reasoning dedoporno showed exactly zero interest in questioning.

Catte's been (allegedly) on dedoporno's radar, but whenever Catte seemed to be a serious lunch consideration, dedoporno was elsewhere.


babark
-- D1 votes him (#202) because "a push is perfectly warranted", and sits there until forced to unvote because of babark's D1 lynch-immunity.

-- D2 shades him (#482/§2).
- Then there're posts #523 and #571 I mentioned above.
- Post #612: he ever so subtly plants the idea of babark role-phishing.
- There's nothing else until post #667 where he suggests to lynch babark (context above).

-- D3 he starts with talk about trust and conclusions about babark's claim (#755/§1), then moves to planting doubts (#756), then openly disputes it (#865), and ends up putting him back into his PoE (#910).


I hadn't really/fully registered the D1 & D2 things when I was trying to decide whom to redirect dedoporno to. If I had, I may have picked Catte which would have been a better choice in terms of slimming down the PoE, regardless of his flip.
If I take a step back, I can see them as Catte being dedoporno's scum-buddy, but also as dedoporno shading Catte with the winning mislynch in mind.
And now that I think about it, it could also be dedporno laying the groundwork to bus Catte at the opportune moment and secure his place in the late game.
Before yesterday, I'd have leaned towards the shading, but yesterday, while replying to detective_razza, I had an alarming thought:
- I cleared Catte on D2 based on his passive, almost indifferent attitude because it's nothing like his scum game. I even convinced Dessimu.
- Catte's smart, with his last scum game being fresh for some of us, what better way for scum!Catte to stay out of the limelight than to continue with the demeanour that netted him the clear?

A Catte/dedoporno pair may also explain (better?) why I was the intended N2 NK target, as per detective_razza, since I had cleared Catte, and didn't seem to suspect dedoporno.

I suppose one could make an argument about scum!babark, but I think there's some difference between dedoporno's treatment of Catte and that of babark. Either way, shouldn't really matter, unless concrete/mechanical evidence points into a certain direction after N3.


Could use a bump to post the rest separately.

bump

(2) On Wagon
Now, if things get hairy, and we have to look here, I'm starting at scum!dedoporno not giving clear town/scum-reads to his buddies early on (for obvious reasons), so I again look at #338, and I'm back at:
RWarehall
-- the things I cased him for do apply to scum!RWarehall, the mellow turn around after my case that threw me off is well within his skill (and even said I'm afraid he'll do it; argh);
-- dedoporno's read on him swung to the town-side after his claim, and never really wavered during D3, despite post #768/§1;
-- his wagon fell apart 2 Days in a row, though things are a bit messy to reach any safe conclusion;
-- they were both voting detective_razza D2, but dedoporno jumped on (#612) a good while after RWarehall had moved onto Catte (#584);
-- flip-flops on detective_razza since D1;
-- was the one to get the babark wagon rolling (#676), backed off because of the claim (#719);
-- there's also the spirit of the Ghost Pirate LeChuck - RWarehall would lie while staying as close to the truth as possible.


If dedporno broke the rule about giving middling/open-ended reads to scum buddies (I find it rather unlikely), I look at:
Ambti0nZ
-- his disagreement/spat with butcktoothgamer was very tame and short lived (just #200), and there was no follow up from the latter's side;
-- he placed his vote (quite?) easily and very early, so regardless if the wagon went over or failed, he'd look good, and left alone till the end of the game as it turns out.
-- looking at the votes up to post #257 (leaving out babark's vote because RVS), he had a wagon of 3 votes (ZFR. RWarehall, FrostburnPhoenix) that lasted till post #313, after which it remained with 2 votes until post #388; that's a pure wagon (only townies), which usually is a good indication it's one on scum.


That's it.

And cheers @babark and @gogtrial34987 for the pompbumps!

bump

Thanks, @gogtrial34987!

I've got to run now, will be back in about 3 hours. Hope people are around then, so we can discuss whatever you want to, and then take dedoporno to a most delicious lunch.

Wow. Why do you even ask questions if you don't care about the answers and you're just going to be smug about each and every response I give? I hope you're not doing it just to waste my time.

It was late night when all of this came up so I didn't even consider it and no one asked for it. For anyone else who cares it's Herman Toothrot. I believe I explained how it works.

Aha! Well this certainly puts Dedo's D3 opening post (which I already expressed my suspicion of) in an interesting light.

Voting in spirit, ready to vote when needed.

I'm going to take a guess that you're scum and you're actually LeChuck.

Let's make things even more interesting...

Babark, if Dedo flips scum, which it certainly looks like he will, don't use your power again tonight. Stay home. And please, no one investigate him.

I'll use my motion detection on him, and see if he moves. With one scum likely left, they would have to move to kill someone. Should be able to pin them down.

I'm town but some still won't believe that. But think about it.

If I report there is movement. With two mislynches left before Lylo. You kill Babark, if he flips Town means I was lying, you kill me. Town wins.

If I report no movement, and there is a night kill, then Babark is most likely Town (barring his real scum role isn't a ninja or something).

And if I die at night, well, you have HSL!

-------

If Dedo somehow flips Town...well, do whatever you want. That means something else and I might have to get creative.

Vote!

Vote Dedo

I see no real reason to hold off now.