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Vote Count

gogtrial 2 - bucktooth (2247), Bookwyrm (2248)
Dessimu 0 - catte (2238)
catte 0 - Lift (2235)

gogtrial is closest at L-1
Not voting - Joe, yogsloth, gogtrial.

5 players. Takes 3 to lynch.
D6 timer

https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20220526T2000&p0=78&font=cursive
Post edited May 23, 2022 by joppo
Unvote Gogtrial

I will hold off my vote until Joe and yogs say words, but unless one of them accidentally claims their scum role or something to that level of absurdity I do not see my vote going anywhere but gogtrial.
Back to empty again.

Do de do. Just sitting and waiting for Joe the Question Guy and Yog the Baseball Guy to show up and determine our fates.

Unvote Gogtrial
lol

8 AM people, 8 AM PST
Perfect time! It's 17h here already and I spent last hour at work not working for more money. System is broken in fun ways.
FYI I was out all day yesterday and have just discovered my life is changing suddenly and significantly, as I am needing to move very quickly

Shouldn't affect the rest of this game I don't think, but please understand if I'm distracted

Let me catch up reading
ok, caught up

lol @ mafia stumps and joppo's vote count

can we not thunderdome please

can we do this slow and smart please

some bumps would be appreciated as I post stuff
Bump
I just want to organize vote counts for Days 2-5. I'm ignoring Day 1 since it was all Town wagons, so who cares.

I'm deliberately removing names of dead players just to make the results more stark


Final vote count D2:
TOWN 7 - TOWN, yogsloth, gogtrial, SCUM, TOWN, bucktooth, Joe
SCUM 4 - TOWN, TOWN, TOWN, TOWN
TOWN 1 - Bookwyrm
Not voting - SCUM

Day 2, nobody is covered in glory. Every living player voted for a now-dead townie. So you can pretty much toss this day out, too, for purposes of analyzing the living


Final vote count D3:
TOWN 6 - gogtrial, Joe, SCUM, SCUM, bucktooth, Bookwyrm
SCUM 4 - TOWN, yogsloth, TOWN, TOWN

All of the nightkills have been 1-2-3 voters on catte's wagon. Literally every scum was trying to make that save. To really get into how useful this is, we'll have to get into individual votes, their reasoning, and positions on the wagon



Final vote count D4:
SCUM 5 - gogtrial, TOWN, bucktooth, SCUM, Bookwyrm
SCUM 2 - yogsloth, TOWN
Bookwyrm 2 - Joe, SCUM


Scum vs. Scum Day 5 lol, only Joe is off the scum wagons

Final vote count D5:

SCUM 4 - Joe, yogsloth, TOWN, Bookwyrm
TOWN 2 - gogtrial, SCUM
Not voting - bucktooth

Probably the most revealing wagon

But we'll really have to dig in, again, to reasoning and position

I will say it's very interesting and nothing is obvious
My turn. Bump
I'm actually being too harsh about Day 2, I shouldn't say "nothing" can be learned, as we can still look at any key votes to swing that wagon to a Town yeet
I want to talk about Bookwyrm first

I've said all game that his play has been impossible to understand. I realize he enjoys playing against-the-grain, but it just feels like he's been almost totally chaotic. EOD Yesterday I think I was just really confused, as for some reason right at the end I thought we were tied catte/Dessimu and I couldn't figure out (again) what he was doing, but I'm not sure my confusion really mattered.

Let me come back to that though

Let's talk about his role - Whatever it may be called, and yes I'm just assuming his role works as he claims it does, because it certainly seems to - he functions to create an army of treestumps. The majority of these stumps are going to necessarily be Town, as every nightkill is a Town player. If he uses his ability to hammer, you have to expect more Townies to join the cabal. He can, however, create Mafia stumps with a hammer.

Who benefits from this?

The benefits to Town are significant. Mafia tend to want to NK the strongest Town voices, and through this mechanic, they get to keep playing and advising Town, with the huge and obvious benefit that they are now confirmed Townies themselves, so their opinions can have no ulterior motive. In addition, any killed PR can still claim his results, as with dedo. From a balance perspective, that's *huge* for Town. There's virtually no benefit to Mafia from this role, as mafia stumps can potentially backfire and say things they shouldn't - although, having played games with outed mafia / mafia stumps before, my experience is that you should just ignore everything they say as usually they just try to WIFOM living townies.

As such, I don't see this as a mafia-aligned role. It doesn't appear either side is really loaded with Power Roles. This mechanic is the one "LOOK THIS IS A GOG MAFIA GAME LOL" mechanic present. It creates a really "swingy" game... if this role dies early, the whole game becomes pretty vanilla.

OK, now back to Book's play.

Back to the chaos. My own feeling is that Book has been having more fun hammering people into treestumps than actually solving the game. However, I recognize that it's just possible that I don't understand his play. I mean, he has happily hammered two Mafia.

I suspect Bookwyrm is a Neutral. With a 15 player game, I assumed from the start we would have 3 Mafia and 1 Neutral, because GOG games love Neutrals like crazy. We don't have a SK, we probably don't have a survivor... but this role? I do not know WTF this role is all about. It certainly seems to benefit Town far more than Mafia, but Book isn't playing it the way I would. I don't think I would have claimed it when he did, for example.

HOWEVER

It doesn't really matter, does it? I'm not here to get Neutrals, I'm here to get Mafia.

The point is, if he's Town, great, we don't yeet him and good for us

If he's Neutral and we end up in an F3 with him, then that's Tomorrow's problem

If he's Mafia I don't know how we're ever supposed to deal with that, but I don't see any realistic scenario in which he is the only Mafia left and just bussed his whole f'n team

Point is - not voting Bookwyrm Today
I want Jedi Treestump Council to weigh in before I continue with wagons
My knowledge of mafia roles is lacking. I haven't played here for a long while, so have zero assumptions as to what is popular. Game seems uncommon. The stump mechanic is actually awesome addition. Why? Because I swear to baby Jesus, if dedoporno and Cadaver were not town!stumps and just dead, I would have been lynched. Getting NK'ed is fine. But yeah, I am pretty certain they deserve a praise for keeping playing and counseling well. I am not saying I don't appreciate Max and Micro, just that Max often adds "I am still clueless" and Micro always posts as if he just fell off the bed.

Bookwyrm is indeed valuable to Town. Everyone saw Book playing too low to the ground. I assumed he was either mafia, or had a role. But for a long time, there was nothing concrete. Basically, Bookwyrm was a "potential scum", but then claimed and put himself in the spotlight. Why scum did not push for his lynch? Why mafia did not kill him? Why mafia did not roleblock him? (yeah yeah, Lift probably was the roleblocker of some kind and he is dead).

I already expressed that I can see Bookwyrm as scum in a very specific scenario, where it's just 3 scum and Town has too much doubt to lynch Book, therefore he wins as mafia.
avatar
yogsloth: I want Jedi Treestump Council to weigh in before I continue with wagons
It is my considered opinion that BROKOLS RULE!