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gogtrial34987: I in fact first took it as sarcasm, which was strengthened by Book's reaction which I read as taking it the same, and only when multiple people took it serious, and you responded in kind, did I file it under "huh?" and left it in my drawer of weird pings to return to at some point.
Ha, so did I. As a matter of fact I almost posted a passionate rant about it and then I saw Wyrm's reaction and I thought "Oh, this is probably satire and it went right over my head. I almost embarrassed myself storming in on my high horse".
@gogtrial: is ettac Town?
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ettac cigam si eman ym: Please bear with me, I asked for the extension for a reason. I shall return tomorrow night with answers to questions and a re-read to talk about.
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ettac cigam si eman ym: Hey, just got in. Expect several posts from me this evening doing so retrospective stuff and responding to posts made while I was away.
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ettac cigam si eman ym: ...
My current read on Dessimu is based heavily on the events of D4 but I still need to go back and iso Lift, Dessimu and Yogs
...
the events of D4 which I will recap when I iso Dess.
...
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ettac cigam si eman ym: D1
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ettac cigam si eman ym: D2
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ettac cigam si eman ym: I'm going to bed, but I'm not at work tomorrow so I'll be around.
I am underwhelmed.

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ettac cigam si eman ym: Ok. It’s too weird to be false. It doesn’t really clarify your alignment
If true, his alignment must be Town, since he deliberately hammered micro.

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Dessimu: @gogtrial: is ettac Town?
I don't know.
He's the only vote on Lift which I can see as scum.

I put some trust in the reasoning which led me to:
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gogtrial34987: catte+buck+joe remains possible
yogs+dessimu+joe remains possible
But I don't see scum!buck due to the vote on Lift, so that means that yes, catte must be town.
But I doubt about Joe again, so that means that the reasoning could be completely wrong after all.
@Gogtrial: but if Joe, Dess and Yogs are scum, ettac must be town
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gogtrial34987: Him Joe?
Yes, he's scum. That catte vote removes any doubt. Utterly reckless, and obviously trying to remove our leftover time to figure it all out with consensus, and for certain.
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bucktoothgamer: While I agree the vote was a knee-jerk reaction(pretty much everything joe has posted since that vote has been one really), is a ettac vote really going to do much to rush the clock down? This game has shown so far that ettac wagons do not build that quickly, D4 was proof enough that if ettac was really on scum radar Lift would probably still be alive right now.
We got scum on D4. Scum did not manage to prevent this, despite them presumably winning the game if they had.
That means there was no viable wagon with a town player voting for another town player for scum to hop on en masse at D4 EoD.
Catte had two votes at D4 EoD: Dessimu and yogs.
That means that either catte is scum (in which case Joe's vote doesn't matter), or that catte is town, but that Dessimu and yogs are scum.
If catte is town, then Joe's vote on catte is too risky for town!Joe to make. Thus, Joe is scum, or Joe knows for very certain that catte is scum, which is unlikely for town to know.

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bucktoothgamer: a large post count gap between ettacs and the other(successful) wagon
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a whopping 111 post gap between yogs vote on ettac and gogtrial's smoking gun proof on micro
I like this. A new perspective.

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bucktoothgamer: So what does this mean? 1. Does a Dess/yog scum team really have it our for ettac for some reason: I would doubt since that would mean either none or just 1 of the scum team jumpped on Lift's wagon, something that would be easier to spot the later the game goes on.
Why would multiple scum vote Lift, if they have a good chance of winning by not doing so?
From your perspective, do you really see multiple scum among me, catte, Book?

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bucktoothgamer: but with these two wagons I could talk myself into a gogtrial/ettac/joe/lift team.
Oh wow, you do!
Really, you see scum!me reasoning all D4-long to arrive at scum!Lift as my primary target? While ignoring town!Book which also had enough stated support for a successful lunch? In the process making the argument that convinced you to join the Lift wagon, rather than following Lift's argument for town!Dessimu or town!Bookwyrm?
OK, it's ~10 hours left
https://www.timeanddate.com/countdown/generic?iso=20220520T2000&p0=78&font=cursive

I might be off for several hours. Here is my assumption on Book's claim for now:

Book's claim about being Town!Stumper without naming his role and alignment (but hinting it) in his initial *claim* post #1845:
.
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Bookwyrm627: I'm the reason for the Stumping; as long as I'm alive, then people that die at Night get Stumped, and because nothing can be easy, my hammers get stumped too
Book repeats himself stating that he is the reason for the Stumpting but without naming his role yet again.
.
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Bookwyrm627: I'm the reason for the Stumping; as long as I'm alive, then people that die at Night get Stumped, and because nothing can be easy, my hammers get stumped too.
Finally Book gives in and name his role:
.
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Bookwyrm627: I'm the Stumper. You know how people have turned into Stumps when they die? That's what my role does. It happens to anyone that dies at Night, and it happens when I hammer someone. Instead of leaving our nice little Harry Potter pow-wow, they get to stay and chat more.
I have no idea what the Stumper is. Here is what I know:

Tree Stump (alias Stump):
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Tree_Stump

Treeviver (no known alias):
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Treeviver

A Treeviver is a player who can bring a dead player back into the game as a Tree Stump. Treestumps may post, but may not vote or act. Treestumps are still counted as dead for the purposes of votes.

So why Book is not a "Treeviver" (modified or not) but a "Stumper" since every other mentioned roles is in the Mafia wikia anyway?
ZFR was lazy enough to give Dedo a JOAT role with Tracker ability (+??? ability probably) without inventing a new name for that role.

Every NKed Town player was revived as Stump. Micro was hammered by Book (Catte's wagon was at L-2, hammer was not possible anyway), Lift was hammered by Book but his post was posted just a mere seconds after Catte's vote on Lift and Book post does not look like a hammer to me, more like it's either Lift or Dess are scum, or both even, in my opinion Book was not going to hammer Lift, it was an accident or it looked like an accident at least.

Book's role is SUPER important if true, why he declared it? To be NKed the very next Night???

Or maybe to blind Town of his claim?

Every player which was killed by Mafia returned as Stump.
Will you believe that it's Town doing?

Don't you think that every player which was killed by Mafia player (NK or hammer) is cursed to be resurrected as stump?[/i]
Because from my point of view it's exactly how it works.

I still think it's 3 Mafia players in total (not 4) and Book's post #1732 gives me the creeps:
.
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Bookwyrm627: Because if we assume 3 and screw up on the lynch, we get a pleasant surprise in the form of another chance. The opposite is not true.
I think Book's decision to out himself was anti-Town for Town and ballsy (in a good way) for Mafia.
It's your choice what to think of course. I'm glad I'm dead, and before that I was asking Book in my latest post in Twilight.
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gogtrial34987: while Joe showed serious solving attempts on D2/D3
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Bookwyrm627: Could you link a few of these, preferably from D3? From one time-crunched dude to another, I realize this is selfish of me to request, so if you can't then you can't.
The things which stuck in mind:
D2: maxleod as NK analysis (#539)
D3: ruling out ZFR shenanigans with his dedo vote (#893/#895)
D3: his questioning of how yogsloth reads dedo (#917/#946/#1001)
D3: his questioning my initial micro gotcha (#1055) and then on D4 town-reading me for it (#1218)

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Bookwyrm627: I think Lift was a dead man walking by Day 4.
FWIW, I didn't read him as such at all.
@Gogtrial: but if Joe, Dess and Yogs are scum, ettac must be town
Yes. Which is my main hypothesis from #1880. Simplest solution: all scum were off-wagon for Lift; they were hoping to run out the clock for the win, and taken by surprise by the switch catte+Book votes. I stated this explicitly:
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gogtrial34987: catte+buck+joe remains possible
yogs+dessimu+joe remains possible
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gogtrial34987: But I don't see scum!buck due to the vote on Lift, so that means that yes, catte must be town.
Do I town-read catte by himself? no.
Does scum!catte make sense to me in relation to everything else? Not very, no.
But it remains a possibility.
@Gogtrial: so, now everyone can be scum, except Bookwyrm?
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gogtrial34987: @Joe: Have you given up?
I'd explain the difference between giving up and sulking but etc. uselessness etc.
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Dessimu: @Gogtrial: so, now everyone can be scum, except Bookwyrm?
I already answered (#1884) that I'm town-reading Book for his claim, yes. If you have a point to make, please make it?

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dedoporno: @Joe Why the hell do you keep wasting time with a confirmed scum and mud the waters considering his writings?! This is utterly useless.
Could you apologize to Joe for this?

Please also don't leave it too late to share whatever you found?
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Cadaver747: Treeviver (no known alias):
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Treeviver

...

So why Book is not a "Treeviver" (modified or not) but a "Stumper" since every other mentioned roles is in the Mafia wikia anyway?
Good find! A role yogsloth wasn't aware of?
The difference in name doesn't set off any warning bells to me, but this does:
Use & Balance

A Treeviver can bring a strong voice back into the game. Treevivers should be X-shot to avoid just being able to turn every factional kill to a treestump.
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gogtrial34987: Could you apologize to Joe for this?
No, I refuse. I stand by what I said. Musing over what a confirmed scum is saying and doing post-flip (most of which are obviously jokes) is useless and in no way helps solving the game for Town. I'll die on that hill. I have only pointed out this particular thing as being useless and Joe is being passive-aggressive about it in a very childish manner. I won't tolerate that.

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gogtrial34987: Please also don't leave it too late to share whatever you found?
I kind of want to see those claims first.
@Gogtrial: the point I am trying to make, is that you pushed a strong case for your "I figured out the scum team" and now it turned into "but everything is a possibility, so I don't know". If you had to vote right now, who would be your two targets? Not three, not one. Two. Who?
If right now is EoD, and I'm out of time to parse all the recent input, I'm still trusting the neat solution as the most sensible and likely one.
So, limiting myself to two: Yogs, for being not helpful and all the "oh, it's so simple, but if it isn't then I'll solve it tomorrow and handwave away today" posts. And Joe, for being part of either solution, plus the reckless catte vote.

I give that a 70% probability of being correct (yesterday morning when I woke up, it was like 99% - I'm willing to take note of the blinding brilliance of the solution not being all that convincing, though it's super disheartening).

The rest of toDay I'm pondering and poking the possibilities in the other 30%, and waiting to see what shakes out of that mass-claim, with particular interest in catte's explanation for not starting it yesterday.
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gogtrial34987: The rest of toDay I'm pondering and poking the possibilities in the other 30%, and waiting to see what shakes out of that mass-claim, with particular interest in catte's explanation for not starting it yesterday.
Speaking of that I intentionally posted the claiming order when I did even though it was quite late in the evening for me as Catte was online and posting. As a matter of fact that was one of the reasons I had him first even though I considered other sequences as well.