Um.... you won't believe this bc of your tunneling but "mentally I had switched in those 60-odd intermediate posts from believing Pooka to believing those who condemned him as a deliberate liar caught in his own web."

yeah, this is a good question by Catte.

@Buck I hope your wife is okay and heals quickly from any bruises/bumps/etc and that nothing broke.

@1094: You give me a stronger scum-read than joe does, but that is weighted by the fact that you always appear scum to me, and Joe almost-always appears town to me. Therefore, my reason + gut feeling is along these lines
"initial scum-read minus always scum!Lift = true read"
and
"initial scum-read minus always town-reading Joe = true read"
or (for example)
10 (-5 because I always think you are scum and I'm correcting for this) = 5 scum points
vs
9 (+5 because I always see Joe as town and am correcting for this) = 14 scum points

at one point that list was based off of gut feelings, and my vote was based of of reason+gut.

refreshes before voting

I don't want to be the lunch.

there are 3-4 scum (probably) so if my #4 scummiest is yeeted, that's probably okay.

we've got no time.
vote catte

Vote Count

Micro 3 - gogtrial(1075), Joe(1080), Lift(1094)
ettac 3 - Dessimu(955), yogsloth(964), Micro (1096)
Lift 1 - Bookwyrm(1066)
Dessimu 1 - bucktooth(1038)


Not voting - ettac, Cadaver

10 players in game. Takes 6 to lynch.
Micro and ettac are closest at L-3

When you see a vote count, please make sure your name is shown as voting for the correct person. Let me know if it isn't.

get well soon mrs bucktooth! health takes priority, hope you're both okay.


wrong! i get stressed when i'm town. when mafia i can wink at my buddies and relax.

Oh my god. Such walls of text. Walls within walls even.

Thank you for finally explaining. It doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me, but it is what it is.
Of course I don't expect people to wait around - I just made a throwaway comment about the fact it was frustrating that I made an effort to get online because I knew about the deadline and it was wasted in the end. Am I not allowed to be annoyed that it didn't work out?
As for the opportunities you speak of, I did say that it was a particularly tiring week at work. I didn't really do anything in the evenings between those days because I was too tired.

Be annoyed, that's fine. But do you really think any of that is AI?

The shade without substance accusation was due to you making a cryptic accusation and then not explaining it. You have now given it substance, although I disagree with your reasoning obviously.

Not much time, I just had the band practice I mentioned on tuesday.

I seem to remember this conversation happening already - mafia day chat is pretty unusual around here. This makes me think back to the "whyquicktopic" conversation you had with Joe on D1 as well.

In the context of Dessimu's u-turn you must admit it looks a little like he was instructed to change position and did so. Maybe you are town and he is opportunistic scum, I have no idea.

It's called a summary dude. And new wagon as in my wagon was a new one that just came into existence.

All 3? That's very specific, do you know there are only 3 mafia? The general opinion is that we should assume there are four, but if there are three and you happened to be one of them I can see how you might slip there.

I'm getting tired of pulling out quotes but you spend quite a while talking about how you weren't saying Dessimu should find me scummy. Yes you weren't literally saying he should find me scummy, but that was the subtext I saw - maybe it's nothing.

It's a good thing I'm not. Seems like you're laying the groundwork for lunching me if one of them turns out to be scum?

Just a general request - please don't type so much. I didn't want to single anyone out, but you're a big part of my lack of participation on D2. Every single time I opened the thread there were pages of posts like this. I would start reading but I was so tired that I wouldn't get fully caught up. Every day I'd get further behind.

Here I am. And there is so much to go through. Do I even want to catch up that much anymore?! I think I'll just read the last page

You bluntly told him to have another look at me - repeatedly I might add. The coded part is the possible subtext that what you were really saying was "find a reason to vote for catte". Remember, I saw this exchange and Dessimu's vote in the same reading session so I went back and looked at your exchange through that lens. Maybe it's nothing, but I'm not going to think of it and then not say something.
Not everything gets thought of during the night, sometimes circumstances change or opportunities come up during the Day and you need to suggest something to a partner. Maybe said partner doesn't get what you're trying to say and you need to repeat it over and over again. I'm not saying it's a solid theory, but I'd certainly regret it if I didn't say anything and it turned out to be true.

No perceived instruction there, does there need to be? I saw Yog's vote as opportunistic and him being scum is not necessarily dependent on you or Dessimu's alignment.

It's a big jump to make without any explanation. Almost like the list was made up without any consideration? As for nothing changing - day chat has never been the norm here.

That's quite a stretch - obviously I was referring to the thing that had happened that involved Pooka and was an accident. Why would I be referring to something that hadn't happened and wasn't an accident? As far as I'm aware Joe's hammer on Pooka was deliberate.

When someone addresses me directly I feel an obligation to respond. This uses up time and energy, of which I have a limited amount. By the time I am finished I just want to go to bed!

Being reactive is easier and more structured than being active. Earlier on you accused me of observing and not analysing. I'm not entirely sure how to play mafia in such a scientific manner!

Playing is what I've been trying to do, but instead I've spent over an hour reading and replying to you. It probably would have been better to spend the time ISOing Micro or something. This multi-quote style of replying is rather tiring to edit and write.

Ok, so doing a quick look at Micro, gogtrial has a point. Micro has been pretty inconsistent when it comes to Pooka. He's also been all over the place toDay:


The vote by itself was a little suspicious being that it was the third vote in quick succession, but in some ways the unvote could be worse. My gut says a scum Micro might be overly concerned with the appearance of being the third on the wagon.

These are Micro's last two posts. He's flip-flopping all over the place with the votes.

As far as I can tell the last vote is a desperation vote to bring my wagon level with his. That's not scummy (as I've said, self-preservation is as much a town thing as it is scum), but the fact he'd just voted for Joe before that is. I guess I should probably

Vote Micro

He's not top of my list, but he's moved up quite a bit with those last two posts and (for the same reason he switched to me I suppose) if it's him or me then I pretty much need to vote for him.

I still like Joe. In-game and as a male specimen. He's lovely. I hope he isn't scum but if he is he's got it made.

I'm still concerned about Dessimu. A bit more, actually. I don't like how he isn't getting killed and how he himself brought that up and instantly provided a reason why the scum keep him alive. Convenient. But I suppose not impossible. Apparently there were talks about massclaim which I didn't see and won't look for. On paper I don't like it. It freaks me out a bit. I wouldn't vote him right now as there are likely better alternatives but his halo from earlier has begun to darken a lot.

Can't say about Yogs. He can be either side. I still think there are better alternatives to him right now.

I can't say Catte has grown on me a whole lot since last time based on what I read.

Same about Micro. I'm not fully convinced he's scum as Gogtrial appears to be based on the clues he thinks he picked up but I still I'm somewhat concerned. I don't like how he avoids some people because they're "too easy targets". I don't like how he voted on previous days and I don't like how he voted me on D1 when he said he wouldn't. I would vote him Today and won't even feel bad about it.

Bucktooth keeps not looking like scum to me. Town? Maybe. Neutral? Sure, why not. Scum? I don't see it. If he manages to hide it that well good for him. Or I just suck that much. Or both. I would vote him Today.

Wyrm isn't exactly shining but that doesn't necessarily mean he's casting shadow instead. There were some little bits and pieces that give me hope. He's mostly middling and I would look elsewhere Today.

Cadaver's posts I mostly skipped. Catching up as a dead player is already a ton too many of effort and I don't have the time nor the energy to spend there. My previous stance hasn't change. Probably best to look elsewhere.

:OOO HSL another dead Townie???

Gogtrial has become very enthusiastic about picking up on something about Micro. I recognize this feeling as I've had it before in games and it appears as genuine joy that comes along with a Eurika! moment. I'd let him play it out and if Micro flips scum - major points.



I don't think it 870 was unclear and I don't think Cadaver's statement is necessarily malicious by intent. He seems to be this way sometimes. Obviously I don't know if he isn't scum this time (or you) but I've gotten used to him getting sort of offended, for the lack of a better word, by bits and pieces where he doesn't get what he wants/expects. At least that's my personal view on things.


@HSL I hope you recover quickly!

@bucktooth I hope your wife also recovers quickly!

Well good thing I refreshed page 22 or else I would have completely missed the HSL disappearance(please get better by the way HSL)

I am shelving my Dessimu vote as the gogtrial discovery is the most concrete slip we have seen from someone in a bit.

Vote Micro

Thank you for the well wishes with the wife everyone, ended up just being a sprain that we can fix up with ice and time off her feet.

I see two pings?
-----
*shrug* Saves me a lynch to find out which is which, ya probable scumbag.

Jokes on you, I only need 9!

Shoot Lift
Shoot Catte
Shoot Dessimu
Shoot Joe
Shoot Cadaver
Shoot Buck
Shoot Micro
Shoot Yog
Shoot Gogtrial


---

Apparently I have at least 3 pings? Sorry to anyone else who paged me and I didn't see it yet; I only happened to spot this while paging for ZFR posts to figure out the HSL thing.

This deserves more commentary than I can give at the moment. The short version is "that long post from HSL made a number of points that made sense to me indicating that Lift is scum. However, there were enough bits that seemed wrong that I wasn't left convinced it wasn't a scum!HSL trying to wreck town!Lift."

Could it have been TvT? Ennhhh. That's a hard sell. If I assume you're Town, then that lends toward Dessimu being Town (his D3 opener felt like a distraction, which asks the question "from what?", which points directly toward your lynch) since Scum!Dessimu doesn't have much reason to not let you get lynched. Add in my strong town read on Gogtrial, and that means all 4 scum are in Catte, Joe, Cadaver, Buck, Micro, Yog, and I'm having some trouble seeing a team of 4 there (maybe some kind of Lurker Squad?).

Anyway. I was hoping to have 4+ hours to read today. Events dictated that I had less than 1, and I couldn't be late collecting my child so I didn't try to dig in.

Just so we are clear, it looks like Micro is at L-1.

@BOOKWYRM how does Dessimu become town from distracting from a Lift Lunch? If lift is scum, that makes Dessimu scummy if, indeed, he tried to save scum!Lift?

if I'm at L1, I'll claim.

I'm a confused out-of-time and distracted VT--nothing more and nothing less.
I shouldn't have played when half-asleep but meh.

I apologize to my team for playing badly and

Go town!

I still think scum include... Catte? Lift? Joe? Book?

That last post is somehow town!Micro to me.
@Micro: I am not trying to save Lift. I was pursuing yogs

Ah well, that explains everything then.

Except for this:
The reference here should've been to #701. In any case, the post in which Pooka said he wouldn't claim even at L-1 came after micro's vote for Pooka (#699). So, in #720, Micro is claiming that he now sees Pooka as scum, for something which happened after his vote.

And then he forgot all about that when switching his vote to Lift, or summing up his thinking later on.

any reason/basis why you were pursuing Yogs over Lift or another?

There's no point in self-hammering so I don't see myself doing that.

Since I know I'm town, and since there is no night--just a reset of the vote count & times--there should be no huge rush to mis-lunch me.

I might even help town for once.

+++++++++
Staring somberly off into space, Harry P the 9th, thinks sadly of his friend H Pott the 6th while talking to Har Pot and Ha Potter.
He remembers fondly H. G. R. Pott's adventures as a certain rug-dealer who liked leaving bread around, an escape room proprietor, and magnifying-glass user. He hopes that he might one day get a message from him on discord.
then, cheering up, he recalls the birds singing outside his window, and sneezes reflectively when he remembers the blossoms on the trees. Finally, he goes off and snores in an interesting fashion.