Just curious/wondering: I didn't want to be the lynch(I like playing, for one thing), so I tried getting another wagon going....does that count as a push?

No, I'm not doing this dance with you.

If you want to argue my actual points, I'll consider it. If you want to misconstrue or ignore my points, then you can do so by yourself.

I'm using this quote as the most egregious example from this post, and now I'm not giving it any further oxygen.

=====

Pooka, Micro, and Joppo, your input is required. Are ya'll willing to sign on with a Blotunga lynch Today or not? It looks like Trent is willing while Catte is not. If ya'll aren't up for it, then I'm moving my vote.

I believe I did make some good points of my own & that I stated my case well enough....which you yourself seemed to, at least in part, boil down to things like "GH's case is weak as usual....not worth banking on really".

Btw: Catte made good points and illustrated some of my own feelings re: NMillar's end of d2 activity(or lack of, in some cases) in post 615. How is it that they see the merit in my ideas/words while you seem not to?

Out of curiosity: who(besides me, of course) would you switch to if the Blotunga wagon doesn't go anywhere?

I haven't given an input yet because I'm writing a really BIG post. I have to cover my take on stuff that happened through two whole days. But I agree I'd better answer you on this right now.

The way I see it (from an incomplete read, mind you) there HAS to be one scum among Book vs Blotunga. And I'm thinking you're making more sense.

I'm not committing this view to stone before I complete my reread but given what I have so far it's more likely my answer is Yes

When I flip town who will you lynch? Trent or Bw? Because I will flip town. And I'm not exactly sure why BW is so adamant to push for my lynch. Is it because it feels like an easy lynch for scum? Possible. While we can't find out anymore why nmillar didn't hammer lyft, I'm omgus-ing you BW. You have no case here.

vote Boomwyrm

VOTE COUNT

Joppo 1 - GymHenson (#544)
blotunga 2 - trentonlf (#545), Bookwyrm627 (#563)
GymHenson 1 - Pookina (#595)
Bookwyrm627 1 - blotunga (#620)

Not voting: Microfish_1, Catte, Joppo

With 8 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.

blotunga is closest to lynch at L-3.

Day 3 ends in approximately 4 days.

Alright, here I am, all caught up. BEWARE: MAJOR WALL OF TEXT COMING UP.

First of all, let me go for the question that has been hanging ever since D3 started: Why Nmillar didn't hammer Lift back then. And the truth of the matter is... I haven't the slightest idea. (Although I have to ask what game have you been reading because there wasn't the slightest hint of scum I could see in Lift's behavior so I don't get why he was lead wagon in the first place. Whatever.)

I had been reading the game until EoD2 and I was fairly suspicious of Nmillar too. When I was called to sub in I was almost expecting to get a PM stating "Your scum mate is X, here's the link to the scumchat". That's completely not what I got and I was a bit surprised.

After that surprise I had to reread the thread. If I had hanging suspicions of Nmillar back when I wasn't in the game something could jump out at me now that I know that whatever Nmillar wrote had Town's interests in mind. And if I was giving anyone townpoints for suspecting him those should be revoked now and in some cases even swapped for scumpoints, of course.

So, despite my not being able to explain away the mess of EoD2 and being very possibly lynched for it, I'll try to provide stuff that can help Town find the killers whatever fate I may get. Analysing "myself" from the start of the game:

#35 Pooka RVS votes nmillar
#43 Nmillar has yet to appear so Lift pokes him with a vote
#52 Nmillar's first appearance but nothing useful, just a "Sorry, I'm here" sort of post
#60 Nmillar RVS votes Flocke
#66 and #68 A bit of interaction with Flocke, answers that if limited to blotunga or Bookwyrm he'd end voting blotunga for being a bit lurkier tho he adds that it would be a bit harsh since it was too early in the Day to take that reason.
#73 Talking about why he's against an early NL Pooka reminds the Stanley Hotel game, including a passing mention that town!Nmillar wasn't very good there at convincing him he was town. (Soooo.. hopefully you guys can account for that in your assessment whether I'm scum or town?) Well, moving on.
#78 blotunga: "I don't have much to go on, nmillar's vote on the newcomer might be maybe something weird (usually we don't lynch newbies on D1)." Meh, it's still RVS.
I can see why Pooka started skipping posts that don't really add anything (for example #81 and #88 would just inflate this list). I will do likewise and it will still be huge.

#128 Interesting. GH says to ZFR he could be "pulling a nmillar (town tunneling on town)". Well, we know ZFR was town indeed and obviously GH calling himself town would happen either way, BUT this implies that GH had reason to be confident that Nmillar was town (none provided until then).
#135 Nmillar says that GH tends to tunnel as wel, which gets acknowledged on #137

#143 and #155 Flocke asks blotunga to explain why an RVS vote from nmillar on her was weird
#158 Nmillar removes the RVS vote and votes ZFR with a terribly weak reason. (Ugh, no wonder I was leaning him towards scum when I was just an observer.)

#171 Book asks Nmillar to explain the vote on ZFR. A reply comes up on #178

#175 Catte's observation on "me": "hmmmmm - Just applying pressure or trying to play the GH and ZFR wagons against each other?". I guess that must be what happened. I can't see why a town!Nmillar would do that otherwise.

#188 Book digs deeper in #188 "...you're just looking at who other people find suspicious and voting one of those people? Your vote is not because you, yourself, find ZFR suspicious?" The reply in #189 is "There's nothing else that's really stood out that hasn't been raised by someone else already." He finishes in #191 with "With ZFR, I'm mostly just bored of the maths."

#192 Lift prods Nmillar for the weak vote too.
#197 Book includes Nmillar among those he would lynch
#198 ZFR has Nmillar on neutral
#202 ZFR rereads Nmillar, concludes with "in both cases, it doesn't make sense for scum!nmillar to act this way. I guess it could be done to appear busy ... but still that's pretty weak. I'll leave nmillar on neutral."

#200 ZFR asks Book why he had put Nmillar (and GH) in the lynch-able list. catte asks the same on #201. Replied on #203 with "I really don't like why he placed his vote." Can't argue with that.

#204 until #212: Lift suss Nmillar but includes among his reasons a mistaken read of nmillar's "admission of newbieness"; Nmillar, ZFR and Catte disagree with him. Nmillar says Lift is not paying attention and that that feels off. In the end Lift and nmillar vote each other.
#216 blotunga calls [Nmillar versus Lift] might be simple TxT. in #227 Pooka says that "it appears to be 90% likely Town-on-Town violence"
#221 Lift admits one of the reasons he sussed NMillar was a misunderstanding but the other reason remains and NM is still main suspect for him.

#256 nmillar states he'd vote Lift or GH
#271 GH replies that his playstyle changed due to IRL

END OF D1
D2 start fairly weak regarding Nmillar due to him being absent for at least 2 days.

#358 Lift votes lurker NM to prod him into coming back. On #371 he comes back and says it was due to Covid plus work issues. (BTW I hope he's alright)
#372 NM gives Pooka a bunch of Town points for ISOing ZFR. Says he still suss'es Lift and GH, votes the latter
#373 to #375 Lift confronts the reasons why NM suspects both Lift and GH and thinks the explanation is weak. In #378 he says NM is not scumhunting.

#389 Book says nmillar is "just piggybacking. Anti-town. Would lynch." Votes accordingly.

#400 GH goes like "any lynch is the same to me." Votes Nmillar.
#401 blotunga says he's going to vote NM, but doesn't to avoid L-1 range. Asks for a claim and gets it in the next post.

#419 Nmillar finally comes up with some substance. He starts rereading and analyzing the previous Day and leans Lift and blotunga townwards; GH, Bookwyrm and Micro lean scum. Continues in #423
#424 blotunga says "nmillar is finally making some sense". Votes GH bringing him to L-2, which is important due to the EoD2 situation.
#429 NM's analysis awards Pooka town points enough to enter the list of those leaning town.
#430 Trent says "I think Nmillar is a bad lynch and I have no interest in voting him."

#433 Bookwyrm: "I see nmillar is working his way up to voting for me." gets a reply that Book "actually gained a few town points for your opposition to no lynch on D1"

#439-#441 Nmillar suggests that the timing for blotunga's vote on GH could be deliberately chosen to give GH less time for a defense. Blotunga says he wasn't thinking of that but there was time enough anyway.
#443 GH posts a bunch of smallish replies to stuff NMillar asked/stated, then leans him a bit more towards Town for the recent effort.
#456 Nmillar puts forward a theory that ZFR suddenly thought GH is the IC.#457-#458 is GH dismissing that as he had already claimed VT.

#459 Lift finds that after putting some effort nmillar looks a lot townier. Unvotes him to vote Trent.
#460 GH follows Lift. Unvotes nmillar and votes Trent. Hm.

#490 Bookwyrm says he liked Nmillar's recent posts, is concerned that he needed confirmation on GH's claim (Nmillar acknowledges he's right in #503), and says he thinks he was misrepresented a few times.
#491 Micro muses that the fact that Nmillar wasn't hammered means he could be scum. But I don't think he was ever at L-1? I was already planning to do a vote tracking after this and now I have even more of a reason.

#521 The whole EoD2 mess starts. Nmillar unvotes GH to avoid the possibility that a scum!Lift decides to quickhammer(!), promises to stay online and revote in 45 minutes. He indeed does so in #524.
#525 Blotunga sets up a Lift lynch for Nmillar, which doesn't take it.

Day2 end here.

==========================================================================
What do I have so far? At first, choosing to NK Lift was a weird choice. A player that had been seen as suspicious enough to have a lead wagon at EoD isn't usually the first choice for a NK. The usual plan would be to off someone else and nudge Town into mislynching Lift. But my theory is that they saw Nmillar's EoD blunder and looked at it as an opportunity.

I propose they wanted Lift dead anyway. Maybe they believed he was the IC and were prepared to lose daychat. Maybe they just weren't comfortable with his questioning. Or maybe every other NK would bring more suspicions over one of the scumteam than Lift's would.
Before Nmillar refused to hammer him, they probably would see Lift as the most likely to be myslinched on D3. But I guess they figured out that EoD2 would cause Nmillar to be under even more heat toDay and went with a Lift NK instead. It also avoids the chance that Lift would talk his way out of the ML, as most of us have seen him do before. (And honestly, the case against him was flimsy at best. He could do it.)

This makes me believe at least one scum is bold enough to go for a high-risk/righ-reward strategy. I would put Trent in this group. I haven't seen enough of Blotunga and Bookwyrm's scumplay to be certain how much risk they're okay with so I'm unsure if they fall in a high or medium risk group. For the record, Pooka and Catte appear to me to take more moderate risks and Micro and GH likely would play it safe.

==================================
More to come as I have yet to tackle this early D3 and do the vote analysis I mentioned above. Also smaller stuff.

Lift was lead wagon because I didn't want to be lynched(I like playing the game), and I had no real leads at the time(that I can recall, anyways)....so I tried seeing what wagons were viable at that time so we could at least get a wagon through for D2(so as to avoid another NL).

It was more or less a gut feeling....ZFR was acting similar to how Nmillar had acted in a prior game when they were town.
(back then I suspected them for it, and they turned out to be just tunneling/focused town)

Speaking of my bad memory and this bit: I forgot about this lean/town point awarding I made(forgot to note it in my notes back then....also thanks for reminding me of this, Joppo)

Musing to myself mostly: Would a scum!NMillar(now Joppo) really do all that work and put themselves in the spotlight so much by doing so? Maybe...gonna have to think a bit on this.

You make some good points here. And yeah, the Lift wagon was a good part "pick anyone else so that i'm not the lynch", so i'm also guessing he could've rebounded from that wagon.

If I was scum I would have no issue going for a high risk high reward scenario, but your theory means I should be pushing for your lynch today and I have not done anything resembling that. As I said yesterday I though Nmillar was a bad lynch and nothing has changed my mind on that point, as much as others have been pushing for it. If you are truly looking for scum then I am not who you should be looking at. I can also tell you if I was scum the last person I would have NK'd last night was Lift, I would probably have killed bookwyrm as he is one of the strongest players left in the game.

It's 2:30AM and I'm slightly sleepy but that won't stop me from contributing anyway. Watch as I say unintelligible stuff or something.

Get better soon and fight a good fight!

You've got approximately three days to discuss this stuff. Hope you're ready to get your feet moving on the fourth. :)

After reading this Day's posts, I'd prefer blotunga as the "distant third" for my vote, but I'd be willing to lynch him if it came down to him. Second is Joppo (leftover from nmillar), first is GH. Joppo might go up or down depending on what he says, which I haven't read yet. I believe one of his posts is a mega-self-ISO.

But so far, blotunga isn't doing anything to draw my ire. Resulted in a no-lynch? Yes, indeed. However, the reason he gave us in #553 is alright and would've been something I could get caught up in if forced into similar circumstances.

I haven't an idea why (or how) Lift became a lead wagon either, and in a matter of hours. His behavior and mannerisms really screamed "I'm Town."

No no, it wasn't the Stanley Hotel game. It was the catte game with the horrible banan and the broccoli.

Hmmm...you know, I like this explanation. And given everything else you covered in this self-ISO, plus the bit indicated in the previous quote? It's becoming more likely nmillar made a blunder but not out of malice. After all, the more I think about it, I don't see why scum would let an opportunity to mislynch just fall out of their hands. Two less persons to deal with next day, instead of just one. Scum wanted Lead Wagon Lift dead. So it...maybe isn't nmillar/joppo we're after.

And in fact, lead wagons walking their way out has become commonplace recently. It's making me lament that I didn't stick around longer in the Stanley Hotel game, maybe someone else would have been lynched instead of me :). Anyways, the topic at hand.

So why am I letting go of the whole nmillar thing? Remember the horrible banan and broccoli game? In that game, the last Day had dedo, nmillar and myself. I was 100% convinced nmillar was the scum, because he wasn't doing much to make me believe he's Town, so I happily vote him. Bam, turns out scum dedo was more Towny than an actual Town. It was also in that game that he was subject to IRL issues, just like this one (albeit not as bad). So I can see him saying Lift is scummy as heck, then not vote him anyway. So I'll refrain from voting joppo - at least for now.

So I guess it all boils down to GymHenson first, blotunga a distant second. GH seems to be strange this time around, which is honestly a record-breaker because let's be honest, his playstyle is already strange, so if I say he's strange this time around, that's an achievement and it's pretty worrying. Blotunga I'm only considering due to the circumstances around him and even then that's not strong enough for me to vote him outside of an "avoid NL" situation. For the record, I think bookwyrm, trent, micro and catte don't seem to be scummy in my eyes. Though I gotta say trent appears the Towniest to me.

"I'm Zangief, I'm bad guy." -Zangief, Wreck-it Ralph, 2012

FTFY

VOTE COUNT

Joppo 1 - GymHenson (#544)
blotunga 2 - trentonlf (#545), Bookwyrm627 (#563)
GymHenson 1 - Pookina (#595)
Bookwyrm627 1 - blotunga (#620)

Not voting: Microfish_1, Catte, Joppo

With 8 players it takes 5 votes to achieve a lynch.

blotunga is closest to lynch at L-3.

Day 3 ends in approximately 3.5 days.


PSA: I'm going away for the weekend with my family and may be a bit less available but will try to at least keep the vote count updates every 12-ish hours like before.

Been there, done that, got the silly consolation t-shirt. ;)

The first bit of my post 623 explains this.

Maybe you have a point....dang, now I gotta rethink for a bit(if I want to change my vote, and if so then to whom).

IRL affected at least the start of my play for this game, and bad memory/lax note taking/etc just added to it as the game went on.

(of course, this could all be a clever ploy by "le scum GH", so take the above with the usual grain of NaCl)

Forgot to reply to this bit earlier

No, more because (like zoidberg in the clip) I keep suspecting/voting people and they keep turning up ded(NKd).

By the by, you really should find a way to watch the video if ya can....it is quite fun and also quite amusing when one looks at the game and then it. :)

Good to hear(both that the vote counts will be updated and especially that you're having some time with your family) :)

Correct, I'm not really seeing/feeling it. Would be willing to vote GH for the same reasons as yesterday. Speaking of Micro, he's not posted in a couple of days - where is that dude?

Hmm. I was thinking that scum!nmillar didn't want to be the hammer on (what he knew to be) a bad wagon, thinking that would draw negative attention, but your explanation makes sense too.

I have enough doubt that I'll hold off on nmippo today.

<3