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General discussionGOG and censorship(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 27, 2015
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Shadowstalker16: Sucks to have governemnts interfering but that's how they roll I guess.
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lukaszthegreat: Doesn't Indian government do the same? maybe not games but I am sure they censor and block movies.
Nope; too much backlash. Movies are a powerful form of media here; and with many followers. No government or mainstream media organization will side against movies. Kinda great since they have much more violence and bad language than games. So anyone messing with the game industry will have to answer to even more violent movies.
The only games not available here are games the publishers didn't release on their own accord. Like Falout 3 or DA:I. Both of which have been excluded because of ''cultural sensitivities'' or something. Either way; if McDonald's has no problem setting up shop, no amount of virtual cow-offence-abuse-sexual-portrayal-thing the developers predict WON'T happen.

EDIT: No frontal nudity in posters or magazine covers though.
EDIT 2: The poster thing is very stretched very often for movie posters and no-one says anything
Post edited February 27, 2015 by Shadowstalker16
Posted February 27, 2015
Censorship in Germany isn't the problem.
The problem is how companies choose to deal with it.
Posted February 27, 2015
I was just thinking, why did GOG not announce, "Willkommen, liebe Schweizer" oder "Willkommen, liebe Österreicher"
and openend up a swiss or austrian forum : (.
Posted February 27, 2015
"Grüezi" or "Servus" should have sufficed...
Posted February 27, 2015
At least it would then be quite possible that there would have been no need for the taken measures.
Posted February 28, 2015
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lukaszthegreat: Doesn't Indian government do the same? maybe not games but I am sure they censor and block movies.
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Shadowstalker16: Nope; too much backlash. Movies are a powerful form of media here; and with many followers. No government or mainstream media organization will side against movies. Kinda great since they have much more violence and bad language than games. So anyone messing with the game industry will have to answer to even more violent movies.
The only games not available here are games the publishers didn't release on their own accord. Like Falout 3 or DA:I. Both of which have been excluded because of ''cultural sensitivities'' or something. Either way; if McDonald's has no problem setting up shop, no amount of virtual cow-offence-abuse-sexual-portrayal-thing the developers predict WON'T happen.

EDIT: No frontal nudity in posters or magazine covers though.
EDIT 2: The poster thing is very stretched very often for movie posters and no-one says anything
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_India#Film
Posted February 28, 2015
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Khadgar42: Yeah, but scaring off German customers by presenting a German platform that is becoming closer and closer to Steam can't be a good business model too. Right? RIGHT???
I not sure what you mean by this.

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Khadgar42: It could basically become an Austrian Store, with .at ending, still getting all the German customers and offering a German frontend and circumventing an Age Verification for the purpose of marketing 18+ material or censorship.
What problem does turning this into an Austrian site solve? What is the difference from just removing the German part of the site? Couldn't the Germans just remove gog from their search engines anyway as toxicTom mentioned earlier, no matter which language the site is in?
Post edited February 28, 2015 by rotorde
Posted February 28, 2015
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Shadowstalker16: Nope; too much backlash. Movies are a powerful form of media here; and with many followers. No government or mainstream media organization will side against movies. Kinda great since they have much more violence and bad language than games. So anyone messing with the game industry will have to answer to even more violent movies.
The only games not available here are games the publishers didn't release on their own accord. Like Falout 3 or DA:I. Both of which have been excluded because of ''cultural sensitivities'' or something. Either way; if McDonald's has no problem setting up shop, no amount of virtual cow-offence-abuse-sexual-portrayal-thing the developers predict WON'T happen.

EDIT: No frontal nudity in posters or magazine covers though.
EDIT 2: The poster thing is very stretched very often for movie posters and no-one says anything
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lukaszthegreat: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_India#Film
Guess I didn't know my government; sadly. But those films seem to taken from a VERY hit-or-miss list. I live in Kerala and there are movies on TV and in theaters that deal with heavy handed topics. Hell; I've seen movies with intended rape and literally showing some on-screen that has been ''approved'' by them. The article you linked cites 5 movies being censored; which is quite a high amount. Do keep in mind though that most of them were still cleared for viewership in most of India thereafter. The regional film industries in regional languages of each state (ie; Malayalam films for me in Kerala, Tamil for Tamil Nadu etc) seem to be ignored by them. If you look at the percentage of movies being released and the number of ones censored, then you will find less than 10% even makes those guys at the censor board even blink. Either way, there seems (I haven't looked this up) to heavier censorship on religiously offensive material and no cap at all on violent material. Some forms of violence have even becomes tropes in some regional film industries. Dowsing people with petrol and burning them is a trope I've seen in more than 5 of the few Malayalam films I see every year or so. Either way, point taken; lets just hope the beast stays oblivious as it is to games.
Posted February 28, 2015
Wrote a mail to support and asked them why they put a regional lock on Commandos 2+3 which never was banned in Germany.

I'm curious to see what they'll have to answer.
Posted February 28, 2015
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PaterAlf: Wrote a mail to support and asked them why they put a regional lock on Commandos 2+3 which never was banned in Germany.

I'm curious to see what they'll have to answer.
I am curious also. From what I have seen across various threads where this topic has been discussed, it seems that the majority of Germans seem to say that GOG has made a mistake on this one, restricting games from sale where there does not appear to be a reason to restrict them, i.e. a misinterpretation or misunderstanding of laws. It is much clearer in Australia. We are a convict colony ruled by those with Victorian era morals and no-one really gives a shit to do much about it. Myself, I just get what I want through trading, gifting or using other means to disguise my location. I have spent far too much time this lifetime arguing with ignoramuses, myself included :D
Posted February 28, 2015
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Khadgar42: Yeah, but scaring off German customers by presenting a German platform that is becoming closer and closer to Steam can't be a good business model too. Right? RIGHT???
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rotorde: I not sure what you mean by this.
I mean gog's way to approach the situation seems flawed either way. Including a German (.de) plattform, censorship and scaring of veteran German customers doesn't sound right to me.

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Khadgar42: [...]
What problem does turning this into an Austrian site solve? What is the difference from just removing the German part of the site? Couldn't the Germans just remove gog from their search engines anyway as toxicTom mentioned earlier, no matter which language the site is in?
I'm not sure, as I am no lawyer, but what I know is the following:
When I want to legally own a title that can't be advertised by German stores because it "endangers the natural development of the youth" I can buy one outside Germany.
People who can't speak English, buy them slightly overpriced in Austria.
I prefer to buy one slightly cheaper from amazon.co.uk.
As a German store you have to make sure that you hide all titles who are deemed "dangerous to the natural development of the youth" from children under the age of 18.
I guess (but again that's not my area of expertise) a .de with € and German front-end counts as a German store.
Clearly an .at (Austrian) store isn't a German store, so it is unaffected by German regulations.

For the record:
In in the unlikely event that the German half in me should ever feel the urge to look at Nazi-Swastikas I just need to google some Russian or American (just two examples where I stumbled over them while looking for some decent porn) sites with German Google version.

I could also look out for the obnoxious gog fellow with his rainbow Swastika provocation but his portrait is gone...

addendum:

just look at our Austrian neighbours using this to their advantage. Congratulations, hope this helps their economy a little...

http://www.gamesonly.at/
Searched and found with German google, not really a problem...
Post edited February 28, 2015 by Khadgar42
Posted February 28, 2015
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Khadgar42: I mean gog's way to approach the situation seems flawed either way. Including a German (.de) plattform, censorship and scaring of veteran German customers doesn't sound right to me.

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Khadgar42: [...]
What problem does turning this into an Austrian site solve? What is the difference from just removing the German part of the site? Couldn't the Germans just remove gog from their search engines anyway as toxicTom mentioned earlier, no matter which language the site is in?
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Khadgar42: I'm not sure, as I am no lawyer, but what I know is the following:
When I want to legally own a title that can't be advertised by German stores because it "endangers the natural development of the youth" I can buy one outside Germany.
People who can't speak English, buy them slightly overpriced in Austria.
I prefer to buy one slightly cheaper from amazon.co.uk.
As a German store you have to make sure that you hide all titles who are deemed "dangerous to the natural development of the youth" from children under the age of 18.
I guess (but again that's not my area of expertise) a .de with € and German front-end counts as a German store.
Clearly an .at (Austrian) store isn't a German store, so it is unaffected by German regulations.

For the record:
In in the unlikely event that the German half in me should ever feel the urge to look at Nazi-Swastikas I just need to google some Russian or American (just two examples where I stumbled over them while looking for some decent porn) sites with German Google version.

I could look out for the obnoxious gog fellow with his rainbow Swastika provocation but his portrait is gone...
Ok.

Comment about part I bolded:

Unless I've missunderstood what has been said in the different threads, please correct me if I am wrong, this is a legal grey area and perhaps gog was a little nervous about it.
Posted February 28, 2015
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rotorde: Ok.

Comment about part I bolded:

Unless I've missunderstood what has been said in the different threads, please correct me if I am wrong, this is a legal grey area and perhaps gog was a little nervous about it.
http://www.gamesonly.at/
http://www.gameware.at/
http://shop.up2games.at/index.php?page=product&info=50289
[...]
https://www.google.de/?gws_rd=ssl#q=18%2B+version+%C3%B6sterreich

Maybe I'm cherry picking, but for me that's 50 shades less of what I would call grey area.
Posted February 28, 2015
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Khadgar42: http://www.gamesonly.at/
http://www.gameware.at/
http://shop.up2games.at/index.php?page=product&info=50289
[...]
https://www.google.de/?gws_rd=ssl#q=18%2B+version+%C3%B6sterreich

Maybe I'm cherry picking, but for me that's 50 shades less of what I would call grey area.
The fact that there are people operating in a legally grey area does not change that it is a legally grey area. It just means that no one has tried to do anything with it yet. If you are in such an area then you are taking a risk. How big that risk is is debateable and may change over time.

Edit:
When I mention the grey area it is this that I am referring to.

As always tell me if I am wrong so I don't make an ass of myself.
Post edited February 28, 2015 by rotorde
Posted February 28, 2015
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rotorde: [...]
A lot of people say it is not grey. Not one bit...

Basically It's arguable depending on how long these shops exists and how common this practice is.
Again, I can only repeat this and hammer it home...

There is no German law saying that I'm not allowed to own, play and posses a copy of an uncut Sleeping Dogs edition
I hope I made myself clear, good...
Because I have to buy it from a store where only adults have access to or which is outside the jurisdiction of Germany.
Like an Austrian or British store... Can't get less grey and less shady than that.
I own several games I'm not allowed to show them to teenagers in Germany and that's perfectly fine.

Can you show/sell porn to under-age kids as a video rental/shop/outlet in Sweden?
I'll bet it is basically the same thing.

"Of course teenagers want porn, so they have to be kept in the dark that porns exists and you need an age verification..."
Basic old school train of thought of the whole censorship movement.

Never was a problem for gog either, until the became a German shop. Yes, German, exactly.
Specifically that one.
Austria is a sovereign state, as far as I'm concerned but maybe Merkel wants to invade them because of the Sachertorte or to ban and censor stuff there as well. What the hell do I know...
As long as it is a sovereign state it's not Germany's business...

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rotorde: Edit:
When I mention the grey area it is this that I am referring to.

As always tell me if I am wrong so I don't make an ass of myself.
Ha! Now I'm getting it...

I believe this discussion is moot because GOG deliberately chose to become a "GERMAN" store, basically, again as far as I understood from that post and from their reaction.

Well, well, well...

Bad idea...
Post edited February 28, 2015 by Khadgar42
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG and censorship(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)