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General discussionGOG and censorship(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted February 27, 2015
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Tarnicus: Hotline Miami 2 has been banned from Australia, and hence is regionally restricted on GOG, although I could find no record of the decision on the Australian Classifaction site.
http://www.classification.gov.au/Pages/View.aspx?sid=RfGswWYF5cPC5o5j1oGJGw%253d%253d&ncdctx=o6%2bfrfTanKlJxlJM8G9sJBYafpLUo5bsNE5eTqkanXBSB%252fd9Gqd%2bXcXXwLlLfZlc
Posted February 27, 2015
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Tarnicus: The game does not interest me and I have been quite put off by what I have read about it - having a scene where the player character rapes another and there is no choice in the matter does not fit with my ethos
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Klumpen0815: This has been stated false repeatedly in the press.
There is no such scene, but a scene where a movie is made in-game that involves a staged rape scene.
They even removed the animation of the character pulling down his trousers.
Ah Klumpen0815, was it you who linked the early review in another thread? That article did mention it being a movie and that "cut" being called was not very clear. I had to laugh at the outrage over this, given the quality of the graphics in the game. From a marketing perspective, the developers have nailed it by creating a controversial topic. We all have our own sensitivities, and rape is one of mine. I can't look at rape scenes in movies myself and even struggle to read them due my own experiences. Regardless though I do not see a reason to restrict sales to adults.
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Tannath: http://www.classification.gov.au/Pages/View.aspx?sid=RfGswWYF5cPC5o5j1oGJGw%253d%253d&ncdctx=o6%2bfrfTanKlJxlJM8G9sJBYafpLUo5bsNE5eTqkanXBSB%252fd9Gqd%2bXcXXwLlLfZlc
Thanks Tannath, I'm not sure how my own search failed to find that! lol

It is the first time that I have read the definition of restricted content:

"The computer game is classified RC in accordance with the National Classification Code, Computer Games Table, 1. (a) as computer games that "depict, express or otherwise deal with matters of sex, drug misuse or addiction, crime, cruelty, violence or revolting or abhorrent phenomena in such a way that they offend against the standards of morality, decency and propriety generally accepted by reasonable adults to the extent that they should not be classified.""

The current government(and previous ones) offend my standard of morality and decency and most "reasonable adults" that I know. Perhaps this could set a precedent for ousting them? :P
Post edited February 27, 2015 by Tarnicus
Posted February 27, 2015
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Tarnicus: I had to laugh at the outrage over this, given the quality of the graphics in the game. From a marketing perspective, the developers have nailed it by creating a controversial topic. We all have our own sensitivities, and rape is one of mine. I can't look at rape scenes in movies myself and even struggle to read them due my own experiences. Regardless though I do not see a reason to restrict sales to adults.
For personal reasons, I can't look at someone being driven over without a pain either if it's somewhat realistic, but I don't enforce censoring.

The hipocrisy about how perfectly ok it is to show lovely animated low res pixel graphics depicting the most horrible, slow and painful ways to eliminate somebody but how totally not ok it is to show a low pixeled staged rape scene that is obviously part of a movie is ... weird.
I don't like rape scenes either, but if "Perfect Blue" had been banned in my country because of a completely similar scene (staged scene that the actress has to perform after leaving the music business and entering the movie business), I wouldn't have gotten to know one of the best movies ever.

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Tarnicus: The current government(and previous ones) offend my standard of morality and decency and most "reasonable adults" that they know. Perhaps this could set a precedent for ousting them? :P
Most/all governments offend common morality and decency, I thought it's part of the job description!
Post edited February 27, 2015 by Klumpen0815
Posted February 27, 2015
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Tarnicus: Do you guys also abide by Sharia law when selling games to countries that use that system? This is a serious question and is in no way meant to criticise or praise Islam. Given the discrepancy between legal systems around the world, it must be a monumental task to adhere to all of them!

As has been mentioned above, I always thought that the point-of-sale of digital goods determined the legality of such transactions...
IANAL, but...

The problem is not that GOG or their employees could get into legal trouble for selling German-banned games to Germans. This would only be the case if GOG was a German company or had a business in Germany. GOG has to abide to Polish laws, EU laws and maybe Cypriot laws. So this...
Offering or promoting these games is considered a serious criminal offence according to German law, and we have to abide by this law to avoid the risk of serious legal action taken against GOG.com and GOG.com employees.
...is simply not true. You are totally right - no company present on the internet can abide to every countries law. And it's the same with Australia. Australian law can't prevent GOG selling banned games to Australians because it just doesn't apply to them.

However, there is a risk that GOG as a site gets "banned" in Germany. That means it would disappear from all German search engine results effectively hiding the site from everyone who doesn't know it in the first place. This risk has always been there, but with the launch of the German version, it greatly increased, because GOG now counts as "aimed at Germans" - it's radar signature for German censors is now 1000% bigger.
I don't know about Australian censorship measures, but Down Under has a history of internet filtering.

I think GOG doesn't really care about getting banned in some Sharia rules country, since the potential market there is rather negligible. But Germany is one of the biggest video game markets, and while there are certainly a lot of Germans here, GOG wants to grow into this market more, attracting customers that up to now either weren't aware of GOG (many only stay in the "German corner" of the internet) or were afraid of conducting business in another but their mother tongue.

I can really understand GOG's decision as a business here. But for me personally it's a great turn toward the worse. I don't need a German site and I abhor all kinds of censorship. Lacking alternative I'll still stay here for the time being. But if there ever is another DRM-free store that is just like the old GOG, I know where I'll go for my games.
Posted February 27, 2015
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toxicTom: snip
You get a +1 for that.
Posted February 27, 2015
I love GoG and CD Project for what they have done in the past, but (here is the but) this region lock stuff is bollox and it is getting out of hand.
I can understand it from a businesses point of view but as a customer it is pissing me off. Im past 30. I started playing games when i was really young on my C64 like 5 years old. I played Wolfenstein 3d, Doom or Duke3d when i was like 12 (even i would not allow own kids to play these games at this age). Still i grew up i would say as a descend person because my parents taught me well how to be a descend person.
Are we really getting to these times were you have to use VPN to be allowed to buy the stuff you want or have to travel across borders to get it? These government parenting of grown adults is really getting on my nerves.
You can buy history books with swastikas on them, you can turn on the TV 24/7 and watch documentations about the Third Reich but you cant buy a game in a store because you are shooting at a Nazi with a swastika on his or her helmet?
Another example: You cant buy the normal version of Fallout 3 on Steam with the excellent english voice acting just the ridiculous low violent german version with only german voice acting? Dont get me wrong i dont really care for violents in video games but it is pissing me off that as a 30 year old adult someone wants to dictate me what i can or can not consume.
I will do as i always did if something is pissing me off, i will vote with my wallet and stop buying games from places where i cant get the movies, games and version i want. If this means i have to stop buy from GoG i will stop buying from them.
Posted February 27, 2015
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Darvond: Don't complain to GOG, complain to Germany. They might be a keystone of Europe and they might have Nintendo's Euro division by the bollocks, but that doesn't mean sudden pressure from 15+ countries around the world could help change the ways.
I reiterate my question. What changed between now and last week when ANYONE could purchase these games? The only thing I see is the language added. It's a ridiculous connection. The laws didn't matter to GoG from 2008 till last week, so why do they all of a sudden? It seems like an arbitrary restriction at this point. It doesn't affect me, obviously, but it affects many of my friends.
Posted February 27, 2015
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paladin181: I reiterate my question. What changed between now and last week when ANYONE could purchase these games? The only thing I see is the language added. It's a ridiculous connection.
It is enough to prove that currently GOG is specifically targeting German market and customers with their offer. I'd say that from the legal perspective it seems like a difference and is in no way ridiculous...

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paladin181: The laws didn't matter to GoG from 2008 till last week, so why do they all of a sudden?
That is a really bad logic to follow - the fact you did something in the past and nobody sued isn't a guarantee that you can forever continue doing so. Good luck with defending that in court.
But this aside, as any business grows bigger the more it is visible on the radar, especially to the competition. Some of that competition will resort to whatever means at their disposal to hurt this newcomer, especially if it enters their territory and offers something they don't.
Post edited February 27, 2015 by d2t
Posted February 27, 2015
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paladin181: I reiterate my question. What changed between now and last week when ANYONE could purchase these games? The only thing I see is the language added. It's a ridiculous connection. The laws didn't matter to GoG from 2008 till last week, so why do they all of a sudden? It seems like an arbitrary restriction at this point. It doesn't affect me, obviously, but it affects many of my friends.
What I wrote above. GOG is now "targeting Germans" making them in turn a target for German censors.
Some point I did not mention so far: I guess that as of now GOG want to advertise in German media. They can't do this if they are blacklisted in Germany.
Posted February 27, 2015
Sucks to have governemnts interfering but that's how they roll I guess.
Posted February 27, 2015
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Shadowstalker16: Sucks to have governemnts interfering but that's how they roll I guess.
Doesn't Indian government do the same? maybe not games but I am sure they censor and block movies.
Posted February 27, 2015
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paladin181:
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d2t: It is enough to prove that currently GOG is specifically targeting German market and customers with their offer. I'd say that from the legal perspective it seems like a difference and is in no way ridiculous...

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paladin181:
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d2t: That is a really bad logic to follow - the fact you did something in the past and nobody sued isn't a guarantee that you can forever continue doing so. Good luck with defending that in court.
But this aside, as any business grows bigger the more it is visible on the radar, especially to the competition. Some of that competition will resort to whatever means at their disposal to hurt this newcomer, especially if it enters their territory and offers something they don't.
Agreed. And relying on "flying under the radar" by being a small obscure target is not a good strategy. It is similar to "security by obscurity" which is bad practice, hoping that no one notices you only works for so long.
Posted February 27, 2015
Yeah, but scaring off German customers by presenting a German platform that is becoming closer and closer to Steam can't be a good business model too. Right? RIGHT???

It could basically become an Austrian Store, with .at ending, still getting all the German customers and offering a German frontend and circumventing an Age Verification for the purpose of marketing 18+ material or censorship.
Posted February 27, 2015
First regional pricing and now regional locks... The good days for german GOG customers are over. :(

I'm just glad that i already grabbed most of the games i want on GOG.
Posted February 27, 2015
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Khadgar42: Yeah, but scaring off German customers by presenting a German platform that is becoming closer and closer to Steam can't be a good business model too. Right? RIGHT???

It could basically become an Austrian Store, with .at ending, still getting all the German customers and offering a German frontend and circumventing an Age Verification for the purpose of marketing 18+ material or censorship.
+1

As I've already mentioned yesterday: Austria has uncensored versions of movies and games, sometimes even uncensored translations, what is there more to ask for?
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionGOG and censorship(255 posts)(255 posts)
(255 posts)