Money is money, that's business. You'd be hard pressed to find ANY business that would willingly forsake an entire market to appease a handful of customers who probably still buy from them anyways.

That's pimp and drugpusher language.

That's not catering so much as it is them doing what they had to do as a business. They can't just up and abandon a sizable market for a game that has considerably tiny demand.

It has nothing to do with ANYTHING that we can change. That's how business works. You can't change that, no matter how annoying it may be. Businesses have to make money, that's the reality of the situation, and risking an entire market for a game that a handful of people would actually play is just an outright stupid business decision. The CCP may be tyrants, it may suck that they pressured to keep the game off of the market, but that's just how it is and it can't be changed. If you're REALLY interested in stopping the CCP's tyranny, quit buying consumer products and make sure that everything you purchase was made in the US (or your home country, wherever possible, for those who don't live here). That's the only way anything will ever change in regards to the CCP's tyranny. They thrive only because the modern consumer is so obsessed with convenience and penny pinching that they're willing to buy things made in China, which simply funds them to conduct tyranny and oppression even further.

I disagree that the bots are controlled by fanboys. Blatant proof of that is how my statement is downvoted as well, despite the fact that I'm speaking in support of GOG on this particular situation.

Well said

It would be nice if companies(especially ones that make massive profits) would be willing to put morals above profits a bit more....but sadly, many do not.

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They sometimes seem to mass low rate entire threads to save time and/or to discourage posting.....that means sometimes they hit posts they might agree with and/or those by friends of theirs who might be posting in said threads.
(note: all posts since an hour back are untouched...they likely went off from the thread, but they'll likely be back)

As I said in my last post, many Chinese users have access to(or can get access to) V-P-N-S(they have to, to get around the great fire-wall)......GOG very likely wouldn't have lost out on anything.

Btw, have you seen CDP/CDPR's profits for 2077 alone? The execs alone made 6-7 figure bonuses from that. So no, I don't think they needed to bow to the CCP for a bit of extra cash.

Lastly, I have to ask: do you desire so much for GOG to stick around that you'd ignore their actions no matter what form they might take?

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Before I go, I will end this post with an apropos bit from 'A Christmas Carol'

You really don't get it ! this is not only about GOG and while everyone should use VPN in this day and age there is many who don't and as the Chinese government acts on a whim they could cut of access to VPNs at any time like they are now cracking down on their own corporations who are losing revenue by the day.

The more significant point however is CDPRs access to selling their games in China to all platforms as they are the very same company, if GOG got blocked so would CDPR and the desicion wouldn't be done by GOG alone.

Good post and thanks for the reminder. I will take the opportunity to point out that there is still an ongoing boycott of GOG.com, which has been running since the start of the year and has been signed by almost 100 users. The boycott is over Devotion, as well as other recent signs of GOG/CDPR's increasing apathy towards DRM-free.

To those that are saying that GOG had no choice but to bow to Winnie for business reasons: NO. There is always a choice. GOG does not need China's money to be successful. This is about corporate greed, pure and simple. I consider it highly unethical for a business like GOG to impose censorship on gamers around the globe in exchange for access to one particular market. And I am not going to spend my money with a business that is acting unethically.

If you don't like the idea of GOG bowing to China and imposing censorship on you and the rest of the free world, the right thing to do is boycott, so we can show them that it is in fact this decision of their that is a bad business decision.

Oh(as Counselor Swann says in Doom 3), I get it....I get that some of us are seemingly more willing to excuse GOG's catering to certain markets if it benefits them personally(by GOG sticking around/getting more games/etc), and some are less willing to excuse such actions.

Btw, while you're here you might want to watch the linked clip in post 20 as well.....it contains some lessons I think many on the GOG forums could do well to learn from.

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Most of this post I agree with wholeheartedly, well said.

As for this bit: imo the best thing to do is actually to convince others to buy elsewhere(zoom-platform, for example), and to (more importantly) convince up and coming new game devs to think about signing on more with said sites like zoom over GOG.

Funny that, i have never made an excuse for it but i would not fool myself preaching about ethics either when i know that pretty much every larger business would sell their soul to do business in China if they aren't even doing it yet.

As i said it's about one thing and one thing only: money. There is also a reason why Steam, Epic, Origin, Uplay etc don't sell Devotion and i don't see Zoom selling it either for all the speculation that they would, they only avoided the mistake of announcing it in the first place but then i don't see them ever making games that would ever sell in China so it's not like they have much to lose anyway.

I don't like the chinese government like everyone else but i will not going around telling other people what to do and if people don't like a company bending to certain markets which is understanding in this case then please also don't buy goods manufactured in China, apply your ethics to everything China.

Wait, are you saying people shouldn't (or can't) criticize things unless they live up to a certain level of moral standards?
I think Officer Nick Angel says it best in this bit from Hot Fuzz

And not that it's anyone's business, but: I already do such things
(minus where I cannot due to budget, on needed items like food and clothing)

Also let's be honest.....companies like GOG/etc would make more of an impact if they stood up to the CCP than a few consumers here and there. And until they do, it's likely little will change.

And if GOG wants good PR so much, then here's a thought: maybe some would respect/like/buy from them more if they stood up for such principles and not just chased the almighty dollar to the same degree as every other big company.

No that is not what i'm saying, you can and should criticise things you don't agree with but it feels lazy to make the argument around ethics if you cannot apply it evenly but yes criticise all you want because showing displeasement is good if it's how you feel.

An here's the thing right it's good that you try avoid chinese goods but completely avoiding them is hard hell even mega companies outside of China use their labor for many of their products so if you buy them you are still supporting china economically.

Good PR is nice too but the thing is investors want maximum profit so it's not in their interest to decline access to the chinese market, privately run companies has more wiggle room as long as the company is profitable but that comes with risks not everyone is willing to take. Money>ethics is how the world works whether we like it or not.

That's the thing, though....not everyone is perfect or 100% morally upright.....so of course there will likely always be more complaints and criticism coming from less perfect/morally upright people. Essentially(as you probably already know), one's moral status doesn't make their criticism any more/less valid.

I know, but it's better than nothing.

And that's part of what I was talking about. Money should not come above ethics.....at least not to such a degree as it does in this world......and the more any of us(you, me, anyone) uses the excuse "that's how the world works", the more likely it is that little(if anything) will change.

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Anyways, I think GOG has made up it's mind on this and won't likely change it, so I think everyone who wants said game who hasn't gotten it yet should just show the devs some support/love by buying it at their site.

You seem to be arguing that we should not hold businesses to any sort of ethical standards. Businesses should be above accountability for their actions and, as long as they are making money, then anything goes and we should turn a blind eye to their ethical misconduct, because "other companies are doing it anyway".

Yes, businesses make money, but they can (and should) still be expected to maintain certain standards of ethical behavior. After all, GOG.com is a business that has built its reputation based on the ethical principle of opposing DRM. If anything goes in the pursuit of profit, then they may as well open the doors to DRM as well then. After all, it would make a lot more money, right?

I already don't buy from Steam, Epic, Origin, because they sell DRMed games, so I don't care what goes on there. Zoom Platform have said openly that they are willing to sell Devotion on their store and they have spoken with Red Candle; however, in the wake of the issues with GOG, apparently RC have already made a decision to sell their games on their own site and not via a third-party store. Is it their fault if GOG has already burnt the ground there?

Another version of the nonsensical argument that "we shouldn't protest against anything, unless we simultaneously protest against everything." That is utter nonsense and going by that logic the protests that led to such things as women's votes and civil rights in the US would never have happened. No. We need to pick our battles and push back against what we can, when we can. I have been a customer of GOG.com and boycotting them is a small thing that I can do right now to push back against insidious censorship.

Yeah, I mean why should GOG continue to even try to uphold the DRM free pillar if dropping it would make them even more money? Why should a company cling to ethics and morals if there's legal(if questionable) things they can do to boost profits, am I right? /s

I also try to avoid buying Chinese goods where possible, because they have a terrible record on human rights and freedom of speech and are simply becoming too powerful and dominant. However, in the US it is almost impossible to completely avoid Chinese-made products, partly because in some cases there are no alternatives and partly because the information about product sourcing is not always provided.

However, it's not the fault of consumers like us, if we are not being given a real choice. All we can do is to do our best and to push back whenever and wherever we can.