That would be far from a certainty. But, cheating to avoid the risk entirely (which is how I view PM quoting) goes counter to the spirit of the game.

Hmm, how curious.

I'm not a huge fan of playing the PM game, though hypocrite that I am I've been drawn into it (sorry!). I much prefer to go by that other stuff you just listed, that we CAN'T talk about right now LOL (lynch train, accusations, etc).

I DO like giving people the ability to role claim (for me, it's fun to have the drama of a cop deciding to come out and townie / scum figuring out what to do about it, or scum risking a false claim). I CAN see where it could get out of hand though, especially as I've played in games here with TONS of roles!

As far as an endless cop / doctor loop - just don't let the doctor protect the same person on back to back nights. Then it gets tactical as scum and doctor weigh the costs of attacking / protecting the cop the night of the reveal or the next night.

As far as what happened Day 2. I think a lot of people were tentative about voting early on, and like trentonlf I agree it was also real life stuff taking a toll as well. The slow start to the day sort of cascaded after that.

I DO like where you "called" the day Lifthrasil. Should hopefully make for an interesting discussion tomorrow. I might hold off on making major changes to the game for another day, just because I think there might be enough tomorrow (again, I'm using tomorrow in an in game way) to spark early action.

One of the main reasons you will see it specified that the doctor can not protect the same player two nights in a row.

It doesn't get much simpler than that. All shared information needs to be public. Everything else that is player specific (even if it's flavor) and can't be for early leverage can remain in the PM only.

Aside from RL, which can be both legit and used as an excuse, I really believe the gene pool of the game needs more diversity. It's been almost the same list of people playing for quite a while now. We have come to know and feel each other to some extent, at least in the context of the game. That's why everyone is keeping their cards to their chest and only the new-comers are more outspoken. And they usually get punished for that. I don't want to offend any of the mods I had the pleasure to play with, nor their games which were really nice in terms of flavor and mechanics, but from my first game (the school one) to this one the experience has been degrading for me, since the game changed it's nature. At first, when we didn't know each other that well and we played the game. Now we seem to be playing the people and that isn't as much fun. At least for me. I actually wanted to skip this game after I saw the players list, but couldn't resist the flavor. Unless the next game is pirate themed or hosted by myself (hm, I need to host a pirate themed game!), I will remain in the observer thread :)

A fair bit of what Dedo wrote is very similar to what I've PM'd to Lift. I'll copy it and try to keep game content to a minimum. This is all my perspective as a first time player joining the group.

It looks to me like the discussion on Day 1 doesn't really start off until someone sticks their neck out; the longer no one does in any meaningful fashion, the longer RVS goes. This game, I seemed to stir things up, especially after Dedo expanded on one of facts I stated early on. Day 2, I think a combination of lurking (some scum, some town) and RL stalled out the game. From my perspective, there appear to be a number of general topics that this group avoids talking about until someone (once again) sticks their neck out with some sort of information (example, Twilight on Day 2); I think this also stalls things out. Unfortunately, with so many players attempting to survive till late game by not being the first one to break risky ground, things just go slowly.

The worst part seems to be "That seems a scummy thing to talk about", but with no alternative suggested.

Yeah, I mentioned this before, mod should put sample of vanilla PM including role name and win condition into OP to discourage discussioń about that and it so can't be used for anything. Or make every PM different including role names of vanillas to make player burn themselves and not attempt it again. :-)

I am not fan of squashing any discussion on it but I believe it is mod's call and players shoud accept it. I personally would not consider this forbidden PM quoting but mod is the highest authority here.
I certainly don't consider that cheating but I know Krypsyn has strong feelings on this issue so it is better to not listen to him. :-p

What do you mean? Role claims are not forbidden, I just spoke out against quoting. And I am sorry that I apparently singled you out in my 'putting a stop to it' post. You were by far not the only one playing that game and I could have replied to others as well. Or to none at all and just posted my 'restriction' without replying to anyone. If you felt that I 'attacked' you in some way unjustly, I am sorry.

But perhaps I could go the way that Vitek suggests: put the vanilla PM here for all to see and lift all PM quoting bans.

Not in this game, though. We may or may not have people that managed to work things out and gained credibility. It would be unfair to negate such achievements (if any). Also, this would most likely confirm/sentence way too much people at once and advance the game artificially.

I agree. What's done is done, and from the viewpoint of the all-knowing... this game is still 100% winnable by any faction. (WIFOM on that, players!)

Just refrain from direct quoting PMs from here on out in this game, and I suspect this won't ever be a problem again.

The bigger problem is that we've just had two players quit in the last few hours. Being unhappy in a game and wanting to walk away from it is obviously something I can empathize with; I know the feels, bro. I would highly, highly encourage everyone still in it to do what I did last game, though, which is to take a deep breath, walk away for a day, and then screw your head back on straight and help the other players by trying to make the best of it. Contribute the best way you can, and if you really need to back out, wait until next game to do it.

So TB and RW, hope you stick it out fellas. I really do. We need you, even if you're super bummed out right now.

Wow really did I miss something? You sure about this?

And the morphing roles should provide plenty enough to keep things interesting (assuming it's true!)... sorry if that was too much into gameplay

So yes, hoping these two decide to stick it out.

I quit less because I wasn't happy with the game, and more due to outside sources. This isn't the only place I have no motivation, but this is where it becomes most obvious. It became one where I couldn't just take a step back for a day, because it was going to become me posting every other day at best, and I couldn't keep doing it. I probably will be sitting out the next few games and work through whatever's driving this, but I'll be floating around the admin thread, and probably trying to push my way into the observation threads. I still want to be involved, I just can't play with enough regularity to be in a game.

Ah, I totally missed TB's post and I actually thought Warehall's was a bit tongue in cheek playing around. Didn't take it for serious - bummer that you ended up that fed up Warehall hope I didn't contribute to it in any way :( Do reconsider (or not if you aren't having fun).
Ah bummer here's hoping you can get a bit more of that "zest" back! Can certainly see why you might need to take a bit of time to reinvigorate it.