Posted October 31, 2016
tiny E
Find me in STEAM OT
tiny E Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Dec 2012
From Other
Goodaltgamer
New User
Goodaltgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016
Goodaltgamer: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strafgesetzbuch_section_86a#Anti-fascism_symbols
Did you read this part?
clarry: That is amazing. So nazi killing games wouldn't need to be censored if the nazis instead wore crossed-out swastikas. Killing anti-fascists is great! Only in Nazi Germany. Did you read this part?
But the logic behind forbidding a FPS in which your aim/target is to GET RID of Nazis and only because it is showing Nazi-symbols (which by the way is ok in FILMS) is not really explainable at all. and on top of it, it is playing in an alternate reality anyway, so by definition fiction. It really sometimes makes me wonder what those guys deciding do smoke or eat.
PaterAlf
Cookie Monster
PaterAlf Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Christmas Island
Posted October 31, 2016
Goodaltgamer: Actually those are the games on the criminal index!!!!! All games on any list are banned, but the list from PaterAlf are the ones bringing you, just because of possession, into trouble. (like drugs and nothing like for own consumption expection)
You want to see an example of stupidity in this process?
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Raid (yes, german link the EN doesn't say anything about, this game was also indexed out of paramilitary drill, being put into a role of a rambo and destroyer, game could cause "trouble, aggressiveness ..... and headaches)
Sorry, but that's nonsense. Posession of the games is never illegal in Germany. Selling might cause you problems, but that's about it. You want to see an example of stupidity in this process?
https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/River_Raid (yes, german link the EN doesn't say anything about, this game was also indexed out of paramilitary drill, being put into a role of a rambo and destroyer, game could cause "trouble, aggressiveness ..... and headaches)
And the link to you posted is about indexed games, not about banned ones. If you don't know the difference, you should probably stop posting about that matter.
Edit: And River Raid is neither banned nor indexed. It was removed from the list years ago.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by PaterAlf
Goodaltgamer
New User
Goodaltgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016
PaterAlf: Sorry, but that's nonsense. Posession of the games is never illegal in Germany. Selling might cause you problems, but that's about it.
http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Spiele-Thema-239104/Tipps/Indizierte-Spiele-kaufen-und-importieren-1026829/2/ Sorry it is:
verfassungswidrige Symbole, §86 StGB
https://www.gesetze-im-internet.de/stgb/__86.html
https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/86a.html
https://dejure.org/gesetze/StGB/86.html
The possession is illegal. Don't argue with me, argue with the politicians and judges.
PaterAlf: And the link to you posted is about indexed games, not about banned ones. If you don't know the difference, you should probably stop posting about that matter.
Edit: And River Raid is neither banned nor indexed. It was removed from the list years ago.
1.) Where did I say that River Raid is still banned? Edit: And River Raid is neither banned nor indexed. It was removed from the list years ago.
was is the past tense of is, just in case you do not know what times are about.
And as you might know, any banned game is indexed by default, which means they are being banned from being publicly displayed.
If you want to nitpick you should really nitpick and ONLY use indexed. As banning according to the German law is only a sub-form of the indexing. But nevertheless they are ALL banned from being on public display, right;)
EDIT: changed a wrong link
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Goodaltgamer
PaterAlf
Cookie Monster
PaterAlf Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Christmas Island
Posted October 31, 2016
PaterAlf: Sorry, but that's nonsense. Posession of the games is never illegal in Germany. Selling might cause you problems, but that's about it.
Goodaltgamer: http://www.pcgameshardware.de/Spiele-Thema-239104/Tipps/Indizierte-Spiele-kaufen-und-importieren-1026829/2/ The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by PaterAlf
CharlesGrey
Original Grey
CharlesGrey Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Sep 2013
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016
PaterAlf: The list of banned games is very short though and at the moment there's not a single game on it that is on GOG.
Banned games:
Mortyr: Banned because of Nazi references.
Soldier of Fortune: Payback: Banned due to high levels of gore (decapitations, dismemberments, and excessive blood-letting)
KZ Manager: Banned because of Nazi references.
Condemned: Criminal Origins: Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Condemned 2: Bloodshot: Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Manhunt: Banned because of high impact scary violence and cruelty.
Manhunt 2: Banned because of high impact scary violence and cruelty.
Dead Rising: Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Silent Hill: Homecoming (Uncut): Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Wolfenstein (Uncut): Banned because of Nazi references.
Scarface: The World is Yours (Uncut): Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Left 4 Dead 2 (Uncut): Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
The Darkness (Uncut European Xbox 360 version): Banned because of Nazi signs in bonus comic.
Dead Island: Banned because of extreme graphic violence.
And now you have me wondering what the difference between "high impact violence", "scary violence" and "extreme violence" is. You'd think I'd know better, what with all the Horror and Splatter games I've played. What about "ultra violence"? Banned games:
Mortyr: Banned because of Nazi references.
Soldier of Fortune: Payback: Banned due to high levels of gore (decapitations, dismemberments, and excessive blood-letting)
KZ Manager: Banned because of Nazi references.
Condemned: Criminal Origins: Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Condemned 2: Bloodshot: Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Manhunt: Banned because of high impact scary violence and cruelty.
Manhunt 2: Banned because of high impact scary violence and cruelty.
Dead Rising: Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Silent Hill: Homecoming (Uncut): Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Wolfenstein (Uncut): Banned because of Nazi references.
Scarface: The World is Yours (Uncut): Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
Left 4 Dead 2 (Uncut): Banned because of high impact violence and cruelty.
The Darkness (Uncut European Xbox 360 version): Banned because of Nazi signs in bonus comic.
Dead Island: Banned because of extreme graphic violence.
I'd have to second PaterAlf there, and call bullshit. You're not allowed to sell/distribute those games at all, but as far as I know mere possession is no criminal offense.
I actually own an uncut copy of Dead Island. Because fuck da police.
Edit: Fun fact, I've been playing Evil Within recently, probably one of the goriest Splatterfests I've ever seen in a video game, easily on par with most of the games listed above. And what do you know, it's a German retail copy, 100% uncut, and freely available for purchase. Go figure.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by CharlesGrey
Leroux
Major Blockhead
Leroux Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2010
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016
tfishell: I was going to question whether GOG was really much better with their regional blocking, but I guess the difference here is they aren't blocking anyone from Germany buying any games here.
But this isn't about regional blocks that prevent users from buying games, it's about blocking users retroactively from playing the games they've already paid for, without even refunding anything. How did this thread turn into another discussion about German laws and indexed games, that's a completely different topic than what the OP was talking about ...
Goodaltgamer
New User
Goodaltgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016
PaterAlf: From your own link: "Nicht verboten ist der bloße Besitz."
The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.
Interesting that you left all the other relevant part out: The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.
The only way to get such a game, you have to import it:
Same article:
Händlern wie auch Verbrauchern drohen bis zu drei Jahre Haft oder Geldstrafe, unabhängig vom Bestehen einer Indizierung.
Seller as well as USER up to 3 years or money
further:
aufgepasst: Gerichte können je nach Zahl der vorhandenen Medien ein „Vorrätighalten“ zum Zwecke der Verbreitung feststellen
If you own more than one game out of this list courts still can safely and legally assume that you horded them for selling.
And as STGB 86 clearly defines:
einführt oder ausführt (imports or exports) is anyone possessing it already breaking the law.
NOW if the police/prosecutor/judge will punish you is another question.
But as you can only have received it by illegal means you would be punishable. If a friend gave it to you, doesn't matter, you would need to name him.
So possession is not ok, it might be ignored, two different things. (unless if you would have more than one)
They really did posted this sentence badly. Unlike a weapon or similar police would normally not make a hassle out of it, yes, unless there would be other indicators. Similar as it was handled a long time with certain drugs. You were not getting prosecuted if for own consumption, BUT according to the law, you still did break the law.
Plus the state would need to prove how long you already have it as otherwise certain limits would have expired. (Verjaehrung)
So if you just own 1 or 2 and don't have anything else, you will not get prosecuted. Was trying to find some court rulings, but the only one a wee bit closer was this one:
http://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2016-N-17608?hl=true&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
This guy in jail was NOT able to buy FSK18 films (so not really on the bad bad list, just one below ;) ).
CharlesGrey: I'd have to second PaterAlf there, and call bullshit. You're not allowed to sell/distribute those games at all, but as far as I know mere possession is no criminal offense.
Bullshit on the laws maybe, but not on me Edit: my opinion as well, that those a bullshit laws, and actually the second page of this link I gave gave some interesting stuff about steam, if people would bother to read.......
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Goodaltgamer
PaterAlf
Cookie Monster
PaterAlf Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Apr 2012
From Christmas Island
Posted October 31, 2016
PaterAlf: From your own link: "Nicht verboten ist der bloße Besitz."
The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.
Goodaltgamer: Interesting that you left all the other relevant part out: The possesion is not illegal.
Your not allowed to sell the game or to give it to other people, but possesion is absolutely ok.
The only way to get such a game, you have to import it:
Same article:
Händlern wie auch Verbrauchern drohen bis zu drei Jahre Haft oder Geldstrafe, unabhängig vom Bestehen einer Indizierung.
Seller as well as USER up to 3 years or money
further:
aufgepasst: Gerichte können je nach Zahl der vorhandenen Medien ein „Vorrätighalten“ zum Zwecke der Verbreitung feststellen
If you own more than one game out of this list courts still can safely and legally assume that you horded them for selling.
And as STGB 86 clearly defines:
einführt oder ausführt (imports or exports) is anyone possessing it already breaking the law.
NOW if the police/prosecutor/judge will punish you is another question.
But as you can only have received it by illegal means you would be punishable. If a friend gave it to you, doesn't matter, you would need to name him.
So possession is not ok, it might be ignored, two different things. (unless if you would have more than one)
They really did posted this sentence badly. Unlike a weapon or similar police would normally not make a hassle out of it, yes, unless there would be other indicators. Similar as it was handled a long time with certain drugs. You were not getting prosecuted if for own consumption, BUT according to the law, you still did break the law.
Plus the state would need to prove how long you already have it as otherwise certain limits would have expired. (Verjaehrung)
So if you just own 1 or 2 and don't have anything else, you will not get prosecuted. Was trying to find some court rulings, but the only one a wee bit closer was this one:
http://www.gesetze-bayern.de/Content/Document/Y-300-Z-BECKRS-B-2016-N-17608?hl=true&AspxAutoDetectCookieSupport=1
This guy in jail was NOT able to buy FSK18 films (so not really on the bad bad list, just one below ;) ).
CharlesGrey: I'd have to second PaterAlf there, and call bullshit. You're not allowed to sell/distribute those games at all, but as far as I know mere possession is no criminal offense.
Goodaltgamer: Bullshit on the laws maybe, but not on me Edit: my opinion as well, that those a bullshit laws, and actually the second page of this link I gave gave some interesting stuff about steam, if people would bother to read.......
Law might be strange, because it's illegal to buy and to distribute the game, but legal to posess it. But hat's the way it is.
If you don't agree, please show me the paragraph or a single verdict where one was sentenced, because of pure posession of a banned game.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by PaterAlf
Goodaltgamer
New User
Goodaltgamer Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2014
From Germany
Posted October 31, 2016
PaterAlf: The link you gave have nothing to do with "normal laws". The guy was forbidden to get indexed games into jail, because regulation authority thought it would get into the way of rehabilitation to play/posess the games in jail. It has nothing to do with posession for "normal" people outside of jail.
Law might be strange, because it's illegal to buy and to distribute the game, but legal to posess it. But hat's the way it is.
If you don't agree, please show me the paragraph or a single verdict where one was sentenced, because of pure posession of a banned game.
I did, if you would have read: Law might be strange, because it's illegal to buy and to distribute the game, but legal to posess it. But hat's the way it is.
If you don't agree, please show me the paragraph or a single verdict where one was sentenced, because of pure posession of a banned game.
STGB 86
I even explained it, read what I wrote, or better what is written in the law. I even gave you a valid cross reference to check up on it. (hint drugs)
And did you read the second page of the link as well?
bansama
bansama.com . . . . . . . . . . J-ga.me/s/
bansama Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Oct 2008
From Japan
Posted October 31, 2016
Silverhawk170485: It was the same crap with "Games for Windows Life", but worldwide. They shut down and every game was gone.
Um, no? Yes, they shut down the store. But any GFWL game already redeemed is still completely playable, at least in a single player capacity. Couldn't say about multi-player as I don't bother with that. But all of my GFWL games are still playable, even today. Ultimately the only thing potentially complete lost was any DLC. As for blocking access to games in regions after said game had already been available... Personally seen it happen on Steam. I actually had to contact Steam support and ask them to remove a game from the Japan store after the developer placed an IP block on access from Japanese IP addresses. People who already had the game and made in-game purchases, were SOL though. Didn't get that money back.
I also vaguely recall GMG a few years back removing access to their store from a certain country after getting pissed off with someone's support request. But I can't find info on that any more.
Ricky_Bobby
Pan Galactic Inc
Ricky_Bobby Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2014
From Sweden
Posted October 31, 2016
Pyron: I didn't know a country bigger than England, France or Germany and 5 times more populated than Sweden is small.
I was obviously speaking with respects to the US. Remember this part of my post: 'Also, this is something that only affects a small country that 99% of Americans have never heard of... '.
Yes, compared to the US, Myanmar is a small country.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Ricky_Bobby
Ricky_Bobby
Pan Galactic Inc
Ricky_Bobby Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jun 2014
From Sweden
Posted October 31, 2016
Cadaver747: I hope Origin will be denied in all over the world some day
P.S. Seems that only GOG can be taken for granted... and some illegal DRM free websites of course
What I think is absurd is that the OP on Reddit said Steam and GOG both worked .... so why doesn't he play games from Steam and GOG then ?! If gaming is so important to him. P.S. Seems that only GOG can be taken for granted... and some illegal DRM free websites of course
It feels like such a childish and spoiled thing to complain about for someone living in a dictatorship that had serious human rights violations, not to mention the risk to personal safety by being a foreigner (probably Westerner) living in such a country.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Ricky_Bobby
Cadaver747
Cadaver747 Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Mar 2009
From Russian Federation
Posted October 31, 2016
Cadaver747: I hope Origin will be denied in all over the world some day
P.S. Seems that only GOG can be taken for granted... and some illegal DRM free websites of course
Ricky_Bobby: What I think is absurd is that the OP on Reddit said Steam and GOG both worked .... so why doesn't he play games from Steam and GOG then ?! If gaming is so important to him. P.S. Seems that only GOG can be taken for granted... and some illegal DRM free websites of course
It feels like such a childish and spoiled thing to complain about for someone living in a dictatorship that had serious human rights violations, not to mention the risk to personal safety by being a foreigner (probably Westerner) living in such a country.
Steam sells Battlefield: Bad Company 2 (+ Vietnam), I might suggest that the OP is a fan of fast paced multiplayer FPS and he loves to play Battlefield 4 a lot, like many others prefer Call of Duty or Halo, or Overwatch or something else.
Personally I don't like those games, but I can easily understand his dissapointment. I would feel the same if US puts Russia in some black list for media content (incl. video games) and Origin forbids me to play Dragon Age 2 or Command & Conquer games.
Don't you really see a point here? It's all about exlusives bought for real money and restricted because of some political bull shit interpretation by EA.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by Cadaver747
sanscript
Choose τ over π
sanscript Sorry, data for given user is currently unavailable. Please, try again later. View profile View wishlist Start conversation Invite to friends Invite to friends Accept invitation Accept invitation Pending invitation... Unblock chat Registered: Jul 2011
From Norway
Posted October 31, 2016
aluinie: Thats a bad move by EA and is not a good sign for any customers as they hold accounts at ransom and seem to say we can do whatever we want and to hell with customers who have spent a lot of money on our games. .
EA has been a nasty pig ever since they broke the Westwood/C&C series, so this does not come as a shock. This is exactly same thing as with PeePee (paypal) and Visa; even if there's no direct laws as to WHY they're still blocking/banning, they are being owned by powerful organizations that would stop at nothing to enforce a policy, which we today would call fascism. Even Obama said 10/7/2016 that the embargo was considered absolved, so my hypothesis is that there is something else behind the curtains.
https://www.treasury.gov/resource-center/sanctions/Programs/Documents/burma_eo_termination.pdf
EDIT: They've always known what the status quo have been in those countries.
Why start now with the blocking or banning? First they have a open door policy to those countries, makes lots of cash - and then just deny their costumers their rightful access. Think about it; EA would never consider blocking France or Sweden for what ever reason! This type of "hostage-situation" is exactly what we see more often of today.
Every hundred years or so this continues like a cycle. It's like a kindergarten-fascism-epidemi; A spreading mentality to punish or deny access for a human just because (s)he happens to live in a country where the rulers don't play fair, or by another ideology. It should be the other way around: EA should be denied access to every country when they act like that. EA should be forced to open up access again, pay back, or take a heavy fine.
Unfortunately, EA (like many others) will continue like a benign bully.
Post edited October 31, 2016 by sanscript