OK

Do we know for sure that all loyalists know who each other are?

"The allegiance of each player is kept hidden except for the Grand Vizier. The rebels may communicate through special chat."

Good point.

The vizier does.
Everyone else knows 2: himself and vizier.

Thought so. You keep referring to the loyalists as an informed minority, but they aren't.
Also the Vizier doesn't know the faction of the members of their court because *that's kind of the point of the game*.

and surely that should read

0 ---- vast unimaginable distance ----- 1 -- basically -- 2 -- no difference -- 3



Very good! Vert interesting!
Be sure to tell us immediately if you ever get proof of your theory

He should know the faction upon recruitment, after the next Night. If he is dead then 1 or 2 new employees are rebels, that same information will be available for the next Vizier as well. If he is not dead than both employees are loyal.
I'm not sure if Vizier can order Guard Commander to protect him and if Guard Commander will notice a murderous attempt. However I don't think if Guard should guard anyone but Vizier, unless of course it's possible to guard himself (uber egoistical guardsman).
If new Judge can't produce a test confirmation and initiate a court decision Vizier might just kill a new judge knowing he is a rebel, and do it each time for pleasure. Either way we'll get many kills, what a fun game ;)

Well, they are a minority...

I still think if we're to draw parallels, they're closer to Mafia's Mafia faction than rebels.
They're hidden: the majority wins if they're found out.

(though drawing parallels here is a bit like asking who's the equivalent of football's goalkeeper in basketball: I agree they're different games).

(Interestingly, the vizier gave me an idea that Guilty Child - immediately Mafia-confirmed by Mod, which I joked about might be a viable role if made lynchproof. Could be boring though...)

Not my fault ZFR is stoopid.
The majority wins if the loyalists are found out? That doesn't sound right.

(you're right about the comparisons being pointless though)

(I like the guilty child being lynchproof idea. Thematically it's like the mob boss who everyone knows is the mob boss, but they're untouchable)

The new vizier won't know who those employees are, will he?

Protesters are the majority and they have rebel win condition.

Don't worry, that didn't happen due to not knowing the rule.

Why is that? Vizier should know his government automatically after ascension to a new role. If it's not the case than this game is even more puzzling than I thought from the beginning.

You're probably right.

@zazak: Does the new vizier know his loyalists?

Any way, there will never be a situation where the new vizier is sure of his 2 government members. If the old one died, it's because the government had a rebel.

Yes, I was clear on who the majority are, but the objective is to get rebels into government, no?
Well I guess knowing who the loyalists are does aid that goal ultimately, but to compare it to knowing who the scum are in mafia seems like a stretch.

Ehhh, this is pointless. As you said, it's apples and basketballs.

You're right.

You're right.

(Just like a real protest. We're arguing little things among ourselves)