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The penitent man shall pass. Away.

Dark Devotion is coming soon DRM-free.

The sanctity of this place has been fouled... Generations of devout Templars who've committed atrocious acts in the name of their faith, find their end inside this fallen temple. Seek salvation and stumble upon terrible truths as you destroy ancient fiends, wield epic weapons, fight off curses, and venture ever deeper into this accursed place.
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doronnorod: Female protagonist...about a lore and culture that only had men ?? NO THANKS

I have studied the history of Templars in depth. During those ages, an average sword weighed 20-25 pounds. How can a female wield it?

A better game than this is salt and sanctuary.
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Magnitus: While I agree that genders are not symmetrical, I think you missed two important details here:

- asymmetrical doesn't mean its two disjoint sets. Some exceptionally strong women are stronger than your average man
- Its fiction (fantasy fiction at that). If they want gender symmetry (ex: the strongest person in the world potentially being a woman), why not? They can do whatever the heck they want. That's the beauty of fiction. It doesn't have to be real.

Anyways, looks like an interesting title. Will buy when there is a Linux version.
You bring up good points but it leaves one question. If its fantasy fiction then why lean a historical conceptual order such as the templars?

Is it crafting revisionist history? Or just lazy writing?
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Magnitus: Though to be fair, accurate accounts of medieval warfare portray it as a rather chaotic affair (as opposed to the artistic foreseeable dodge & parry game often portrayed in movies) and until the event of firearms, wearing some form of metal armor was the name of the game, at least for an elite professional soldier (aka, nobility or mercenaries).

For combatants getting into the thick of things (as opposed to the archers shooting from afar), that was anywhere between 20lbs (chain mail) to 55lbs (plate armor), although in the later case, the combatant was usually mounted.
What's that have to do with the price of fish?

There is a huge difference between repeated swinging just a few pounds of weight and wearing even 50+ pounds of well distributed weight over your body.

Believe it or not, in general women are as readily capable of either as are men. It's more of a question of training the body to it than any particular inherent physical traits. Even considering the average 36% greater muscle mass in men compared to females.

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viranimus: Is it crafting revisionist history? Or just lazy writing?
It's just adaptive fiction. Writing and storytelling in itself is highly derrivative - the more "unique" settings you create the easier it is to lose readers through details you forgot to include. Not to mention the more difficult it is for them to relate to the settings. So, most fiction will readily "borrow" from reality if only to make things easier on everybody, if not dabbling in speculative fiction outright.

In short, it's neither, you're just trying to find an issue where there isn't any.

Somebody decided to make a game about a world full of supernatural beings with a female Templar character because, presumably, they liked the idea. As long as it's internally consistent, the only problem with it lies within your preconceptions.

Just like Ciri is a perfectly viable and justified character in Witcher's -fictional- world.
Post edited February 11, 2019 by Lukaszmik
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viranimus: You bring up good points but it leaves one question. If its fantasy fiction then why lean a historical conceptual order such as the templars?

Is it crafting revisionist history? Or just lazy writing?
Even fiction has to anchor itself in reality not to become a completely meaningless chaotic mess.

Personally, I've come to appreciate fictional works that are basing ourselves on actual history and then take whatever liberty they must take rather than reinvent a new world from scratch. It makes for less noise to filter to get to the interesting bits. We already have a pretty interesting real historical background to draw inspiration from. No need to reinvent the wheel every single time, especially since very few manage to do it well.

Honestly, I don't understand why so many two bit fantasy authors think they are so interesting and deep that I'll waste my time ramping up about the completely fictitious (and often quite ridiculous) history of a world they created just so that I can get engrossed in their novel.

As long as its clear that its fiction, basing yourself on our world and then taking various liberties with it is fine.

In terms of not being accurate, what's really annoying to me is all the works popping up that are actively claiming to be "historically accurate" (aka, real), but that are taking some heavy liberty with the historical facts. I'm looking at you "Argo".
Post edited February 11, 2019 by Magnitus
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viranimus: You bring up good points but it leaves one question. If its fantasy fiction then why lean a historical conceptual order such as the templars?

Is it crafting revisionist history? Or just lazy writing?
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Magnitus: Even fiction has to anchor itself in reality not to become a completely meaningless chaotic mess.

Personally, I've come to appreciate fictional works that are basing ourselves on actual history and then take whatever liberty they must take rather than reinvent a new world from scratch. It makes for less noise to filter to get to the interesting bits. We already have a pretty interesting real historical background to draw inspiration from. No need to reinvent the wheel every single time, especially since very few manage to do it well.

Honestly, I don't understand why so many two bit fantasy authors think they are so interesting and deep that I'll waste my time ramping up about the completely fictitious (and often quite ridiculous) history of a world they created just so that I can get engrossed in their novel.

As long as its clear that its fiction, basing yourself on our world and then taking various liberties with it is fine.

In terms of not being accurate, what's really annoying to me is all the works popping up that are actively claiming to be "historically accurate" (aka, real), but that are taking some heavy liberty with the historical facts. I'm looking at you "Argo".
I get what you are saying. I have to disagree with it

Taking a real life order and tinkering with it instead of creating something its own, takes that order and fundamentally changes a crucial element of its makeup and expects that change would not have radical and cascading repercussions.

There is absolutely no question that what we know as the templars would not be anything like what we currently know them as had such a massive change as allowing women in would have resulted in. Its not simply just a matter of a retcon for the sake of equalization, it would fundamentally change the orders philosophy, goals, strategies, ect. in examined in long view of history. One change becomes a butterfly effect of consequent changes. A massive change such as women within the order would be so far reaching that it ceases to be the same thing. That shows a fundamental misunderstanding of consequence, logical progession of time and ideas, as well as comprehension of the source material.

If you follow those changes down the line the end result becomes unrecognizable from its source outside the absolute broadest points. At that point when the wheel has effectively been reinvented and it is "X in name only" you see just as much, if not more poor writing and definitely creating its own ridiculous, chaotic mess.

For example look at how hamfisted Bioware handled "templars" in Dragon age. They are not Templars. . They share some core similarities, but their actions and reactions are not remotely in line with that source material. They shouldn't be because they are incredibly different entities and would undoubtedly behave differently based on those distinctions. So when writers do something like this, they are projecting their own bias and interpretation over the source material. When central tenets of that source material are disregarded and discarded, it is no longer what was referenced, and more often than not is little more than a bigoted misinterpretation of it.

So the question I asked still remains. When you fundamentally rewrite something based on real world history, why not call it anything else when the end result is not like what it is based on? Just so people can better understand the base concept? Or is it so the audience understands what is being intentionally stereotyped. That is just lazy, and downright insulting to the reader/audience.
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Lukaszmik: What's that have to do with the price of fish?

There is a huge difference between repeated swinging just a few pounds of weight and wearing even 50+ pounds of well distributed weight over your body.

Believe it or not, in general women are as readily capable of either as are men. It's more of a question of training the body to it than any particular inherent physical traits. Even considering the average 36% greater muscle mass in men compared to females.
I think the strength stats of men and women are two curves that intersect somewhere, but the mean and the extremes (especially at the higher end) are not equal.

This means that there is a threshold in terms of muscular effort that if you get past that threshold, consistently, a greater proportion of men will be able to manage it compared to women. This is why for most sports, you have a separate category for men and women.

I go to work with 2 workstation-class laptops in my backpack, their chargers and a bunch of other stuff. In the total, the weight is ~30lb. I can manage it just fine. I'm a 6f1 guy who strength trains and weights 240 pounds (with 20 in extra, my ideal weight would be around 220).

In general, they don't recommend you carry a backpack that is more than 20% your body weight.

That means that for most women at the office (whose natural weight gravitates in the 110-140 lbs range), my backpack is too heavy. Could they really push themselves and manage it? Sure, however, they'd probably hurt themselves in the long run (that's the thing with resistance training, you can push yourself past your natural threshold, but you tend to hurt yourself if you do it). Does that mean no woman should carry my backpack? Hell no, some women are stronger than me. It just means the average most women shouldn't.

Similarly, in terms of aggression, the vast majority of violent criminals are men. Doesn't mean a woman can't go on a killing spree, it just means on average, men have a lower threshold for becoming violent.

Looking at gender asymmetry, it's not really a wonder for me that the majority of battlefield combatants have been men historically.

However, I'm not sure why some people think that's a bad thing for women. I personally view a greater reluctance to bash someone's head in with a hammer as positive and more socially adjusted.
Post edited February 12, 2019 by Magnitus
Pass.

Too much religious babble.
low rated
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Magnitus: While I agree that genders are not symmetrical, I think you missed two important details here:

- asymmetrical doesn't mean its two disjoint sets. Some exceptionally strong women are stronger than your average man
- Its fiction (fantasy fiction at that). If they want gender symmetry (ex: the strongest person in the world potentially being a woman), why not? They can do whatever the heck they want. That's the beauty of fiction. It doesn't have to be real.

Anyways, looks like an interesting title. Will buy when there is a Linux version.
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viranimus: You bring up good points but it leaves one question. If its fantasy fiction then why lean a historical conceptual order such as the templars?

Is it crafting revisionist history? Or just lazy writing?
Excellent youtuber by the name "American krogan" has done mind blowing videos about revisionist history being pushed on Battlefield 5 and Assassin's creed Odyssey.
I could post links to his video but a negative rep does not allow me.
In this thread: people would rather kiss historically accurate man butt than ogle a hot lady. Priorities, amirite.
The game looks very promising, but I’m curious. Any chance of a release for Mac computers as well?
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doronnorod: Female protagonist...about a lore and culture that only had men ?? NO THANKS

I have studied the history of Templars in depth. During those ages, an average sword weighed 20-25 pounds. How can a female wield it?

A better game than this is salt and sanctuary.
http://www.historiamag.com/women-of-the-knights-templar/
People, really... who cares. It's a fantasy world. I don't see a game set during the crusades and knights with a red cross stamped on their chests. This one has a god, this one is their templar knight (could be paladin, just the same), this one is female.
One one hand, I envy those with so few problems to be able to think this is one. On the other, I pity them because energy can be used for something way more productive.

In any case, I wish I can get my hand on this title soon.