Lifthrasil: Still SPF. Same reasons as yesterday. Yes, he posted something more than pure jokes today, but still gives me the impression of coasting by on minimal effort. Could be him being sick though.

Then Scene. I've cut him some slack because I wanted to observe whether his changed MO is due to him learning or due to him being scum. Also because he wasn't on the mis-lynch train yesterday. He actually defended Fran. But then again that might be an attempt to gain town points and re-reading it, it almost reads as if he knew that Fran was town. In conclusion: he keeps looking somewhat off.

Pooka. Still his 'random' vote creating a wagon out of nothing and his focus on a serial killer. Which, in spite of his explanation, still strikes me as odd. I mean it would be sensible to assume a SK if we had had two kills. But with no night-kill at all the assumption of two killing factions is just really off. Unless he knows something that makes that assumption valid. And then his wish to find out who the NK target was. Almost as if he wonders whether the regular mafia targeted the same person as him, the SK...

Lifthrasil: So. You didn't read the OP at all? The Zephyr is right there in the player list. And the 'scene' in the sentence you quoted is quite obviously not a reference to a player. Which you know. You trying to twist that, implying that blotunga should have taken that as a reference to you, is really stretching it.

vote Scene

And no...
Lifthrasil: ...THAT is not the reason! It is, however, interesting that you pick out the most nonsensical reason to suspect you to show how un-suspicious you are. While ignoring the more substantial points of suspicion directed at you. That list of reasons to suspect certain players, including you, looks very LAMIST!

Lifthrasil: You know, there's a much simpler reason not to claim Doctor unnecessarily. Because it is stupid to serve an important PR to scum on a silver platter.

Lifthrasil: He is tunneling hard and immune to a change of mind. But that was his MO in the past as town, more than as scum. As scum he was more lenient and more willing to give in. However, we talked about precisely that after the last game. So now the big WIFOM question is: is Scene tunneling on purpose because he knows he is known to do that as town? Or is he genuinely town and is stuck again in a 'I have figured something out!' loop?

And actually he might partially right. I believe that blotunga made an honest mistake mixing up Saphiros and Zephyr. However, that doesn't make blotunga town. It might as well be a scum error and as such is NAI.

Lifthrasil: If you check carefully, you will notice that I'm currently voting Scene... so he doesn't get a pass.

Lifthrasil: I like that entire post and yes, it is good to keep this list in mind, since scum will be on that convenient train. I would guess, by pure speculation, that we have two scum on that list and one scum not on that list, so as to not put all eggs in one basket. Assuming 3 scum.

Lifthrasil: Scene voting for a flimsy reason isn't out of character. Korotan latching on to that flimsy reason looked over-eager. So at that moment he was my main suspect. So I voted him. And since we don't get to vote for more than one person I didn't vote Scene at the same time. After I came to the conclusion that it was a genuine newbie mistake on Korotan's part, I unvoted him and voted Scene instead. However, I'm not sure at all if Scene is scum. As I explained, his tenacity concerning the 'slip' he thinks he found may be a town-tell. Or it may be acted by him. He is, after all, a much better scum player than town player.
SPF is also still scummy. Either of these two would be a viable lynch for today in my eyes. Actually, I'll put them on equal footing for now. Then you all can decide which wagon to drive.

vote SPF

Yes, HSL, I know you will now accuse me again of protecting Scene. But what about you? As usual, you ask a lot of questions but you don't share much of your own suspicions. So, who are your main suspects and why?

Lifthrasil: Really. THAT is your reason? That's the pot calling the kettle black. You have less posts than Pooka and less content in those posts. Most of your posts on Day 2 were only defenses concerning your sapphire/zephyr mixup and not much else. Yes, Pooka isn't that active. But neither am I (RL intervening) and you are even less active. So if that's your scum metric, you should vote yourself!

I'm not saying with this that voting Pooka is necessarily bad. But the reason you give is quite weak and that makes it really look like a minimum effort vote. ... In other words, your vote looks scummy.

Lifthrasil: @all: I would vote SPF or Scene, but would put blotunga on the table too. I thought again about his last post and it really looks as if he just skimmed the thread or used adalia's fundamentals to see who was silent for an extended period of time. That gave him a seemingly valid target without having to bother to read everything. Not reading everything is understandable with the health problems and IRL stuff. However, wanting to have a seemingly valid target and voting, just to be voting, is scummy. I town player would not have to be worried about appearances so much.

@blotunga: please explain what else you find scummy about Pooka, apart from the posting frequency.
vote blotunga

Lifthrasil: I didn't see that as potential slip of Mafia knowledge and I think I made that clear. As did others. The only one sticking to that was you. And voting for a lurky player is a good fallback solution if there is no other candidate to be found. But blotunga didn't even try to find a scummy player. He just voted for a player, who is less lurky than himself, for being lurky. That is hypocritical and makes the accusation of lurkiness seem like pretense. I encourage you to compare blotunga and Pooka and then tell me who of those two is lurkier. All blotunga did today was defend against you accusation. Pooka at least made an effort.

Lifthrasil: And yet you vote for a player that has voted and isn't lurky. Doing exactly what you accuse me of: hopping on the train that seemed most promising at the time.

But you know what, you're right in one point: with only 11 hours to go, there isn't much time left to secure a lynch. SPF seems to be protected by 'he always lurks like that'. Unfortunately. And I don't see anyone else following my reasoning for voting blotunga either. So, even though I'll be accused of vote hopping and OMGUS again, I'll put my vote back to where it might still be useful.

vote Scene

Lifthrasil: No, I haven't. But thanks for the misrepresentation, it confirms that you only see what you want to see. I said repeatedly that going after lurkers is a fallback solution when there are no other, better leads. That is something quite different from 'targeting lurkers first and foremost'.

Lifthrasil: And another misrepresentation. Blotunga wasn't the most convenient wagon when I voted him. You were. You had the same number of votes (one) and the interest of more players that Blotunga. And before that I was the only one voting SPF. How is that 'picking the most convenient wagon'?

I'll tell you what 'picking the most convenient wagon is'. It's selecting the only player with two votes on them and adding your vote. Which is exactly what you did, as soon as I had two votes on me.

Lifthrasil: Those two aren't mutually exclusive, you know? Also, tunneling wasn't the reason why I accused you of being scummy. You do tunnel as town too.
What makes you scummy is for example jumping to the most convenient wagon (what you falsely accuse me of) and misrepresenting what I wrote.

Lifthrasil: No problem. I wasn't playing well and at this point my lynch was inevitable anyhow since a Vanilla claim usually doesn't prevent a lynch. But, since Joe didn't finish the Day yet, I get to say one more thing: my role isn't called 'Vanilla'. Joe used another term. So you might want to ask future Vanilla claims for their actual role denomination. Then the other 'Vanillas' can compare that (secretly) to their denomination. Unless, of course, every Vanilla has a different role-name, which I wouldn't put past Joe.

Lifthrasil: Well, what done is done. Sorry, town, that I made myself so suspicious. Especially with mixing up Korotan and Scene in my memory. But as I said before, it isn't that bad. I'm no PR and we were spared the last NK. Also, I am quite sure that there are some scum on my convenient wagon. Especially when the time pressure increased it just became too tempting to resist. Also the only viable alternative was Scene - and if he is scum, his team will have made doubly sure that my wagon takes off.

I do, however, actually believe dedo that the hammer was an accident. That doesn't make him town, as he realizes himself. But I believe that, even if he is scum, he wouldn't intentionally quickhammer in that way.

So, try to make the best of my wagon and we might still win this.

ZFR: And in the post where I mention Joe screwing up I end up double-posting myself. Sorry :(

Korotan: Can someone explain me please what is up with this bump?
I am confused.

ZFR: Micro, I like yor post. Couple of things to note though.

I wouldn't put that mych weight into Fran's list, since it was towards the end an inevitable lynch. (Though blotunga did put the vote before it was so... again might not mean much). In fact I'd look closely at people who didn't vote. Did they try to keep their hands clean on purpose?

Regarding looking at whom dedo suspected, there is WIFOM involved. Mafia might try to NK a town player in conflict with another town to put the other town in bad light.

Personally NKing dedo surprises me a little. He wasnt actually in big a conflict with anybody and might have been in fact a viable wagon on D3 due to his hammering of a townie.

You advanced quickly from a newbie who couldn't get his simple acronyms straight to someone who prepares and analyzes lists on D3. At the back of my head I still wonder if that newbiness was an act. ;)

I think I will start with blotunga. As mentioned yesterday, I found it weird how his reaction to scene accusation is so diametrically different from last game. He voted Lift when Lift's and scene's wagons were almost tied. Ive no doubt his RL reason of going to sleep was real, but why not even consider scene? The duo seems odd in many ways.

Vote blotunga
ZFR: Is my sarcasm (about Joe screwing vote counts last Day) not so obvious? :(

Korotan: @At Joe. You forgot his vote.

blotunga: Ok,finally have more time, so first:
@zfr but why did I became a target in the first place in SH, because I was trying to steer the game. And I was naive to think that it would be ok.

blotunga: Why lift and not scene? Lift was at 4/6 while scene was at 1/6 if I remember right. Or maybe 2/6? Anyway I felt that the only way to make sure a lynch happens was to vote Lift. In hindsight maybe a mislynch would've been better. This is why people should vote. Irl and here.

ZFR: No. You were target because since a fascist vouched for you I thought you were Hitler.

Why are you bringing up that game now?

blotunga: @pooka: at that point on D2, you weren't very active in a meaningful way. Probably SPF would've been a better tackle, but it was not really intended as a final vote anyway.