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nightcraw1er.488: So I have started relying on “other” places which can provide proper installers with proper compression (50% or more in some cases) and just ditching the useless installers I legally brought.
What could be useful is also separating the data files from executable files so that Windows / Linux / MacOS installers reuse the same data file packages and just the binaries are duplicated. Now, if you want to backup both Windows and Linux installers that would actually be two copies of the same data files.
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bombardier: Is DRM-free even possible for modern big budget games? I bet that if I tried to backup the same number of Steam games as I have in my GoG backup, I would no be able to even fit them on 10TB of storage. At this point any DRM-free becomes DRM by the pure nature of things.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: 10 TB in 2022 is certainly not much space, especially with many modern games taking up 50 GB - 100+ GB each, just for one game.
This is where common sense comes in, starting with "The largest is not the average". Cyberpunk 2077 is probably the largest DRM-Free game I've seen on GOG but the vast majority (and certainly 99% of all personal favourites / classics) of my sizeable collection is on average in the 100MB-5GB range (as are many, many non-GOG classics like No One Lives Forever, Dune, Age of Empires, etc). Some games are obviously larger, others are smaller (eg, DOS games only a few MB in size). Others, eg, C64 / ZX Spectrum games are positively tiny (literally 64-128 kilobytes).

Likewise, the vast majority of the mega-sized 300GB Call of Duty, etc, games are DRM'd and are pointless to backup, as are all online multi-player or online-service games. As a reality check to the "But I have 3,000x games on Steam and that's too much to backup" crowd, first of all the bulk of those are often unwanted titles bought in bundles. In fact around 37% of games bought on Steam have never been played, so that's a potential 1,100 out of that 3,000 sized collection that won't need backing up. On top of that, an equally large number of games that have been played are often fairly mediocre "won't replay" titles, so another 1,100 won't need backing up either. So the obvious thing to do is focus on getting all your top 500 favourites / classics backed up, then work from there, and such storage requirements can be quite modest, especially when averaged amongst a lot of older titles.
Post edited March 16, 2022 by AB2012
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I'm not frustrated at all if i were a developer I wouldn't touch GOG.com with a stick right now.
Too much backblast over corporate mismanagement evidenced by the prominent boycott.
Still small market share and a winding back instead of rolling out features like linux support.
The usual problems with time zones and update parity.
The feature mismatch when their games use steamworks for matchmaking.
Simply put unless GOG can get with the program there's very little incentive for developers to do business with them.

If anything I'm delighted that this disaster is snowballing to a critical mass, where they either deal with it or not.
They will simply reap what they sow; and I as a consumer if they go under will simply move to the next service.
Not really. Maybe a little. But it's all down to where you are when it comes to gaming.

I play during my downtime, which is not often. I came in late after a very long time away from playing PC games, so the potential list of games I could get here is really long. My PC is not top-of-the-line, so newer games with high system requirements isn't a big priority. And my health is rather poor, so any look into the far future isn't a good use of my time.

And there it is. I play, but I'm not bothered by the brand-new games hitting the market. Either I'll be around to eventually play them or not.

Gaming is supposed to be an indulgence, not a requirement for living. If I miss one title, I won't be concerned. Let go and enjoy what you have, maybe?
No!, not really. Like everything that's worth waiting for, it just takes time...
I am more frustrated about older releases not becoming DRM free. Personally I do not care about 98% of the games GOG releases and find myself buying more and more games from other storefronts (Xbox, PS, Steam, etc) because they have the games I want to play (and no - I do not blame GOG for that. Appearantly the GOG public is not interesting enough for AAA to offer even older games). Sometimes we get some "crumbs" (e.g. Tomb Raider - but not the 2 newer TR games, Just Cause 2 - but not 3 or 4).
Post edited March 16, 2022 by acute71
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nightcraw1er.488: or those that use cloud saves. One outtage of the net and it’s all gone, just like drm.

10tb doesn’t sound much, but it is.
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Ancient-Red-Dragon: People who use Cloud Saves also can save games to their local machine too, at the same time.

10 TB in 2022 is certainly not much space, especially with many modern games taking up 50 GB - 100+ GB each, just for one game.

In addition to that, hard drive labels are false advertising scams, and the user always ends up with way less usable space than the number that has been misleadingly misadvertised on the HDD product that they bought.

Someone who bought a supposedly 10 TB HDD would only actually be getting about 9 TB of usable space. And that same mislabeling scamming principle is also true for all HDDs of any alleged size.
“Can” and “do” are two very different words. I am pretty sure almost everyone who uses cloud saves do not store files locally.
Whilst I don’t have hard numbers, I know from my personal collection that the average game size is not going to be the high. Sure there are plenty around, but there are vastly more games lower than that. And in the case of large games this is where compression really matters. Take serious Sam 4 which is around 40gb, it’s around 20gb on repack, hence why I ditched my GOG installers, 20gb saving s enough for most of my old game collection! My current personal collection (including music and pictures and everything is only sitting around 14.5tb, so I would really question what you are storing if you need more, I mean I am/was a hoarder!
Isn’t the drive size a mathematical misnomer, it’s the 1kb isn’t 1000bytes but 1024bytes? But yes, you do need to factor that in. Also, if you go with 1 drive fail on raid you effectively lose me drive capacity to be able to recover if one goes down.

To add, my first hard drive was 20mb if memory serves. And I also remember trying to pkzip the command and conquer demo across 6 3.5” floppies, so storage has always been an issue, but hdds are so cheap nowadays.
Post edited March 16, 2022 by nightcraw1er.488
I was really hyped by the release of The King of Fighters XV a month ago, and very disappointed to not see it coming to GOG. Sure, I can play KOF14 instead since it's available here but there's nobody playing online so the release of the new episode was the best time to be able to play with others.

Also, while many persons in this thread suggested that you can find alternative titles on GOG instead of playing newer games, well, it doesn't work that well for niche genres (racing, versus fighting, shoot 'em up...) who are underrepresented in general and even more so on GOG.

So yeah, at times I'm really frustrated that so many games are not making it to GOG, and this not a AAA-only issue, many indie games are not release here either. But well, that's the state of the gaming industry, so I'll make do with what I have on GOG and enjoy the DRM-free games I have access to.
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rtcvb32: I'll have to say no I'm not frustrated.

All the best games are in person and don't cost much (cards, chess, backgammon, etc). All the newer games coming out are (likely to some degree more likely to be...)

a) more likely to be incomplete (especially if a Triple A game company made it)
b) more likely to be overpriced at launch
c) more likely to have some online/paid currency/lootbox/other feature tacked on
d) more likely to require a beefier system/console that may be a money sink

It just feels more and more i feel like I'm getting to the point where I'm done.
I have to hard disagree, but you sound like you're speaking from an older generation. I used to play cards with friends, but I enjoy gaming by myself a bit more. It's just the style of game that I like. And you're forgetting couch co-op. Those games still exist, you know.
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Trooper1270: Like everything that's worth waiting for, it just takes time...
1989 - Prince of Persia
1993 - Prince of Persia 2
2001 - Max Payne
2003 - Max Payne 2
2009 - Prototype
2010 - Prince of Persia: The Forgotten Sands
2011 - Dead Space 2
2013 - Dead Space 3
2011 - Dragon Age II
2012 - Prototype 2
2013 - Remember Me
2014 - Dragon Age Inquisition
2014 - Fable Anniversary
2015 - Rise of the Tomb Raider
2015 - Fallout 4
2015 - King's Quest: The Complete Collection
2017 - Sonic Mania
2018 - Shadow of the Tomb Raider
2021 - Final Fantasy VII Remake Intergrade
2022 - Life Is Strange Remastered Collection
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kai2: The problem is...

... the massive market that is Steam.
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eiii: It never is the market. It always is the customer. When there would be no customer buying DRM'ed games then over short or long there would be no market selling them.
I'm confused by your response.

The Steam digital marketplace was released into the wild in 2003 and has accumulated more than 1 billion user accounts, in 2017 made over 4.3B in sales, and currently accounts for approx. 20% of all PC game sales. At 20%, 1B user accounts, and almost every game releasing there, the Steam marketplace / platform is the go-to marketplace for most PC gamers and has become a virtual monopoly (although not fully realizing the technical definition of a monopoly).

Once entrenched -- short of a massive failure that turns large swathes of the PC customer base toward DRM-free -- Steam dictates the market.

As the internet's leading DRM-free marketplace, GOG opened in 2008.

When it opened, did a massive number of people leave Steam for GOG? No, because most PC gamers are either casual players who are unaware there are DRM-free alternatives or don't care about DRM. That's the sad truth.

Unless you can move massive numbers of people from an entrenched DRM storefront, I don't see how you can say "It is never the market."

How would you ever move significant numbers of 1B potential customers from a DRM marketplace to a DRM-free marketplace with a severely limited catalog and almost no new AAA day one releases (BTW most Steam sales are on approx 100 titles... and most of those being new releases)?

The most realistic scenario is EGS rises to share some of the DRM game with Steam.

So while I admire your thinking that the customer can change things, the reality is much, much deeper and more complicated.
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Nope. If I really want to play the games I'll just buy them on EGS or Steam.

If you're someone who's really going to get hung-up on the DRM issue then there's going to be a lot of games you won't be playing, and that's going to continue more and more in the future. GOG is more likely to be shut down before any of these other stores, so what will you do then? Just continue to play your DRM-free GOG games and never buy anything new you're interested in?

Refusing to buy games that you'd want to buy on GOG if they were DRM-free doesn't do anything. You're not sending a message to the developers or publishers by doing that. All you're doing is punishing yourself.

If GOG represented a significant market share the games would come here, but it doesn't. If Horizon Zero Dawn sold gangbusters here on GOG do you really think God of War wouldn't have released here, or Days Gone? When HZD released here people just complained non-stop in the forum here because it was too expensive for an old console game.

Now you could argue that CD Projekt might be somewhat responsible with Sony deciding not to release their other games here because of Cyberpunk disaster on Playstation, but I'd like to think people aren't that petty, and if the HZD sold well enough here the others would be here also.

Most major studios have tried releasing games on GOG before, and they just don't sell well enough to make it worth their while. Capcom tried with Dragon's Dogma, and had a GOG release with all the Galaxy features like achievements, etc, but they haven't done anything since because it didn't sell. Why would they release modern Resident Evil games here if they aren't going to sell?

They could easily do a GOG release also, because they actually remove Denuvo from their games and they're all freely pirated / backed up if you want. Probably in their eyes they're satisfying the DRM-free crowd by removing the DRM from the Steam release.

Same thing with Bandai Namco. They haven't used Denuvo since 2019, and their games are cracked and pirated same day. Elden Ring sold miliions of copies on Steam and was available to be pirated on day one. Same deal with thier flagship JRPG Tales of Arise. They still don't care enough about doing a GOG release.

Square Enix probably treats GOG the best of the major studios, but they just throw table scraps to GOG every now and then with very old games.They have a lot of games that are DRM-free or games without Denuvo on Steam, but they don't care to release those here. Why? Must not be worth the extra work for the sales they'll get on GOG.

Even a game like King of Fighters XV or the new Samurai Shodown didn't release on GOG despite KoFXIV and XIII being here. I reached out to SNK and asked them and they said a GOG release wasn't decided at this point. I'd provide the contact link to have others do the same, but I can't post links because of the horrible rep system here. But, if King of Fighters was selling a decent amount on GOG they would have released it here, because it needs all the sales it can get, but they didn't even bother.

Even someone like NIS America, who releases quite a few games here doesn't care about GOG much. Is the new Disgaea 6 Complete Edition going to release on GOG? Nope. I asked them multiple times and left them feedback requesting it, and there's no plans. Maybe it will come, but I doubt it. Again, I'd post a link here for people to reach out but the reputation system here doesn't allow me to post links. I think NIS America only releases the Falcom games here because Falcom probably says they have to. They certainly don't care about GOG with most of their other releases.

I could go on and on all day with examples here... GOG customers just think they're more important than they actually are. GOG's market share is absurdly low, and the community is toxic as ****. You don't have to be here long on the forums to see that. Want more GOG games? Then get off your ass and start requesting titles in a respectful way, and if you do get a release here you actually buy it, instead of whining and complaining about the usual topics we see here in release threads.

I prioritize GOG releases also, but I'm certainly not going to deny myself of games I want to play just because they are "DRM'd". Life is too short, and my leisure time is far too valuable to worry about whether something is DRM'd or if it might come to GOG years down the road.

If something comes out same day on both GOG and Steam I'll buy it on GOG, but if I really want something I'll buy it on EGS or Steam. I don't care. If something comes later to GOG and I like the game enough I might even re-buy the game here. That's all I can do. I'm certainly not going to punish myself waiting for potential GOG releases years down the road.

It's really up to GOG here. They need to find ways to grow, and they need to have a better selection of games to do that. They absolutely need to find a way to get bigger studios interested in releasing their older games that have Denuvo removed on GOG. If they can't do that then you're going to see more and more of what we see now, and that's never going to change. Except the already low market share for GOG will just get lower and lower.

The thing is that when GOG does try things to help them grow, the community here rejects it and gets angry. Like the Cyberpunk is DRM'ed folks. They're crying and screaming that a couple of cosmetic items are tied to Galaxy or something and that's DRM'd now. Trying to bring fresh blood into GOG and grow their service with a few (worthless) Cyberpunk cosmetics was this horrible thing to so many here.

It's like when they (GOG) wants you to subscribe to marketing e-mails to claim a free title on a giveaway. People complain and whine about that, when marketing e-mails is a way for them to grow their store by letting people know what's going on with GOG releases, stores, major sales, et cetera.

Is there new blood coming into GOG? Probably not. Newer PC gamers go right into Steam and even EGS now, and it's only going to get worse for GOG. GOG customers are likely older gamers who care more about DRM-free, older games, and classic titles. That's a demographic that is shrinking. More and more older gamers will check out of the hobby because of real life issues. That doesn't work well for GOG.

GOG can't turn into a DRM'd store either, because what would be the point of it then? Might as well just buy on Steam or EGS if it went that way. DRM-free is their identity and if that kind of store isn't a financially viable thing anymore then there's no reason for the store to exist.
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TomNuke: Nope. If I really want to play the games I'll just buy them on EGS or Steam.

If you're someone who's really going to get hung-up on the DRM issue then there's going to be a lot of games you won't be playing, and that's going to continue more and more in the future. GOG is more likely to be shut down before any of these other stores, so what will you do then? Just continue to play your DRM-free GOG games and never buy anything new you're interested in?

Refusing to buy games that you'd want to buy on GOG if they were DRM-free doesn't do anything. You're not sending a message to the developers or publishers by doing that. All you're doing is punishing yourself.

If GOG represented a significant market share the games would come here, but it doesn't. If Horizon Zero Dawn sold gangbusters here on GOG do you really think God of War wouldn't have released here, or Days Gone? When HZD released here people just complained non-stop in the forum here because it was too expensive for an old console game.

Now you could argue that CD Projekt might be somewhat responsible with Sony deciding not to release their other games here because of Cyberpunk disaster on Playstation, but I'd like to think people aren't that petty, and if the HZD sold well enough here the others would be here also.

Most major studios have tried releasing games on GOG before, and they just don't sell well enough to make it worth their while. Capcom tried with Dragon's Dogma, and had a GOG release with all the Galaxy features like achievements, etc, but they haven't done anything since because it didn't sell. Why would they release modern Resident Evil games here if they aren't going to sell?

They could easily do a GOG release also, because they actually remove Denuvo from their games and they're all freely pirated / backed up if you want. Probably in their eyes they're satisfying the DRM-free crowd by removing the DRM from the Steam release.

Same thing with Bandai Namco. They haven't used Denuvo since 2019, and their games are cracked and pirated same day. Elden Ring sold miliions of copies on Steam and was available to be pirated on day one. Same deal with thier flagship JRPG Tales of Arise. They still don't care enough about doing a GOG release.

Square Enix probably treats GOG the best of the major studios, but they just throw table scraps to GOG every now and then with very old games.They have a lot of games that are DRM-free or games without Denuvo on Steam, but they don't care to release those here. Why? Must not be worth the extra work for the sales they'll get on GOG.

Even a game like King of Fighters XV or the new Samurai Shodown didn't release on GOG despite KoFXIV and XIII being here. I reached out to SNK and asked them and they said a GOG release wasn't decided at this point. I'd provide the contact link to have others do the same, but I can't post links because of the horrible rep system here. But, if King of Fighters was selling a decent amount on GOG they would have released it here, because it needs all the sales it can get, but they didn't even bother.

Even someone like NIS America, who releases quite a few games here doesn't care about GOG much. Is the new Disgaea 6 Complete Edition going to release on GOG? Nope. I asked them multiple times and left them feedback requesting it, and there's no plans. Maybe it will come, but I doubt it. Again, I'd post a link here for people to reach out but the reputation system here doesn't allow me to post links. I think NIS America only releases the Falcom games here because Falcom probably says they have to. They certainly don't care about GOG with most of their other releases.

I could go on and on all day with examples here... GOG customers just think they're more important than they actually are. GOG's market share is absurdly low, and the community is toxic as ****. You don't have to be here long on the forums to see that. Want more GOG games? Then get off your ass and start requesting titles in a respectful way, and if you do get a release here you actually buy it, instead of whining and complaining about the usual topics we see here in release threads.

I prioritize GOG releases also, but I'm certainly not going to deny myself of games I want to play just because they are "DRM'd". Life is too short, and my leisure time is far too valuable to worry about whether something is DRM'd or if it might come to GOG years down the road.

If something comes out same day on both GOG and Steam I'll buy it on GOG, but if I really want something I'll buy it on EGS or Steam. I don't care. If something comes later to GOG and I like the game enough I might even re-buy the game here. That's all I can do. I'm certainly not going to punish myself waiting for potential GOG releases years down the road.

It's really up to GOG here. They need to find ways to grow, and they need to have a better selection of games to do that. They absolutely need to find a way to get bigger studios interested in releasing their older games that have Denuvo removed on GOG. If they can't do that then you're going to see more and more of what we see now, and that's never going to change. Except the already low market share for GOG will just get lower and lower.

The thing is that when GOG does try things to help them grow, the community here rejects it and gets angry. Like the Cyberpunk is DRM'ed folks. They're crying and screaming that a couple of cosmetic items are tied to Galaxy or something and that's DRM'd now. Trying to bring fresh blood into GOG and grow their service with a few (worthless) Cyberpunk cosmetics was this horrible thing to so many here.

It's like when they (GOG) wants you to subscribe to marketing e-mails to claim a free title on a giveaway. People complain and whine about that, when marketing e-mails is a way for them to grow their store by letting people know what's going on with GOG releases, stores, major sales, et cetera.

Is there new blood coming into GOG? Probably not. Newer PC gamers go right into Steam and even EGS now, and it's only going to get worse for GOG. GOG customers are likely older gamers who care more about DRM-free, older games, and classic titles. That's a demographic that is shrinking. More and more older gamers will check out of the hobby because of real life issues. That doesn't work well for GOG.

GOG can't turn into a DRM'd store either, because what would be the point of it then? Might as well just buy on Steam or EGS if it went that way. DRM-free is their identity and if that kind of store isn't a financially viable thing anymore then there's no reason for the store to exist.
Nope. I think if GOG shuts down, Zoom-Platform will take the lead. 428 Licensed games with more on the way. They have a much better representation with their customers and are dedicated to bringing a lot of old games over, as well as some indies. It takes time, but they're my definite next bet if GOG comes crashing down. Also, the team are on Discord often, so they update and let you know what they're working on.
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TomNuke: ...
Where did the idea that GOG's market share is 5-10% come from? pre-EGS? Is it closer to %1?
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TheGrimLord: Nope. I think if GOG shuts down, Zoom-Platform will take the lead. 428 Licensed games with more on the way. They have a much better representation with their customers and are dedicated to bringing a lot of old games over, as well as some indies. It takes time, but they're my definite next bet if GOG comes crashing down. Also, the team are on Discord often, so they update and let you know what they're working on.
That what you described right there is the history of GoG. Why do you think that Zoom has better chance?

It is more difficult to live from the cut of the 30 USD sale of several year old game than it is from the cut of just released fresh 60 USD game that everybody wants.

Even if GoG manages to release new 60 USD games, I think that majority of customer base willing to spend 60 USD for a game are no longer here.