Have you actually read the post you linked to earlier? Or the storepage? In other words, there is no LAN in AoW 3.

So does the NWN-series still have DRM? Because playing on a PW (which are entirely user-created) works the same way. As far as I heard at least. I never used the MP part of the NWN-games.

I don't. Granted, I gave it a short try when D2 first came out (which ended badly, thanks to trolls), and another one last year (which didn't convince me either). For the most part though, I played D2 only in singleplayer. Same with all my other games. I really couldn't care less about multiplayer.

You see, he is quite angry and not adequate. He want to say, that Diablo 2 DRM-free not because of Blizzard good will, but because it do no harm for their Sacred Cow.
In case of AoW as I said it seems bad decision for me. Let me explain, why. There is only one case to do so. Numbers of sales. Game with DRM-protected online against game without. Obviously lack of LAN improve sales.
I disagree with this numbers. Also there is other Numbers. Game sales on GOG, for example.
And you know, what? I'm OK with that problem. If they make one promise. To add LAN a year later.
Fix guest crap and make this promise. This way all will be happy.
I'm sure Numbers are real reason for lack of PBEM.

Except, he explicitly says, that requiring an account for online MP is DRM.

That is old, you fucking moron, they will add LAN and it will require internet, at least that is what they have said, fucking retard, you cant even read.

I don't know, I have never played NWN but I guess that the serial for NWN was required in the non-GOG version and was left there even on the GOG version a few years later. AOW3 was developed for GOG and Steam but the GOG version has DRM as the Steam version. I bet that GOG gives the same serial number to all the buyers, if any of you have some balls just post your serials numbers here to check :P.

Well, you must be some kind of Bigfoot, than.

No is not DRM free, how the fuck can you call D2 DRM free? are you fucking retarded!? has online DRM.

Then why did you post that link in the first place? Or have you forgotten that already?

In any case, I'm done here.

Kinda sucks to get treated like a "guest", or a dirty peasant even if you buy the game. And having the settings not saved is just ridiculous. I wouldn't stand for that.

We buy an indefinite license... big difference to a non guaranteed service that's on top of the licence we bought. MP is a part of the content you bought, but unlike everything else in the game it relies on a third party service to function (Outside on LAN/Direct connection) which is again a design choice to include that.

Down in the sheriff's office they've got a couple of goofy prison cells.

The first prison cell has a "door" which is actually a thick piece of plexiglass in front of a TV which can be locked into place. (Someone has scratched the words "Battle.NET" into the plexiglass.)

The second prison cell is exactly the same, except two of its walls have doors with no locks. (Someone has scratched "LAN" on one door, and "Direct IP" on the other.)

Now, if you are placed in the first cell (with the lockable door locked), are you imprisoned? What about the second cell?

Trying to say both cells have the locked door doesn't make the cells the same. Pointing out that one of those locked doors is pretty ineffective does not change the effectiveness of the other. Saying that the locked door provides a service (it lets you watch a closed-circuit view of the sheriff office's "lobby" from your prison cell) does not exclude the possibility of it also being a means of containment. And you can't say whether or not the locked door results in your imprisonment just on its own -- you have to take into consideration the entire structure that has been built.

You want us to believe that if we are in the cell with only the locked door we won't be imprisoned. And your "proof" is pointing to the other cell, the one that actually has unlocked doors, and saying "see, it's got the same locked door -- you wouldn't be imprisoned there so you're clearly not imprisoned here". I think you'll need to find some quarry with a significant amount of brain damage if you want someone to actually fall for that one.

You stupid fuck, can you even read? I have never said that on that link it will be any detail about LAN, I said This is the official forum."

Just read the first link I've posted... damn, fucking humanity :o
Good post.

This is a pretty weak argument... your trying to compare two exact prison cells to two completely different things. LAN/Direct IP =/= Online Matchmaking Service.

Furthermore a better comparison would have been one prison cell with no locks but is guarded (ie Online Matchmaking Service) because you not locked out or in from using as long as you talk to the guards and get your credentials to an open hallway with no locks or guards (ie LAN/Direct IP)

One is a public service (ie Online Matchmaking Service) that helps keeps the prisoner population at bay the other is free for anyone to use/ walk down without being blocked.

The primary (non-DRM) function of all three is to let you play against 1 or more other people -- they are different ways to "let the (multiple-computer) multiplayer feature of a game get out". (And for a game like Aow3, other than the prompt that asks for an IP address, pretty much all the coding required to implement direct IP multiplayer is also required for online-matchmaking multiplayer -- the actual online-matchmaking part is just an alternate way for the game to get the IP addresses it needs to communicate.) So they are not "completely different things". Note that while in the prison analogy it is you that is locked up in a prison cell, in the real world it is the multiplayer feature that is locked up (locked up such that you can't use it).

That is not even remotely a better analogy as it utterly fails to correctly indicate what happens when the prison system decides not to pay the guards anymore. I.e., they go away, leaving the door perma-locked, and leaving you with no one to appeal to for any more furloughs. Just as (unless Triumph changes something or someone comes up with a crack) once Triumph decides to turn off their servers, the online multiplayer feature of AoW3 gets locked up forever.

From the perspective of the DRM-free crowd, the whole point of any discussion about DRM is not "how does it work when everything goes right?", with "goes right" here meaning a valid licensee of the game using it in accordane with said license basically never even notices the game dev/pub has taken steps to combat piracy/"unlicensed use". (If everything always went right, there would probably be no DRM-free crowd to speak of -- no one {except perhaps those who would like to buy a license but can't because the game was abandoned, and would-be pirates} would care enough about DRM to make a stand.) The part the DRM-free crowd wants to know about, discuss, point-out, is "what happens when something goes wrong/down?" That is, what are all the ways someone who is a valid licensee, trying to use the game as licensed, is prevented from doing so (due to some mechanism/design/decision intended to "stop pirates")? If you're not acknowledging/addressing that issue, then you are not really discussing the same topic as the DRM-free crowd.

Honestly I'm not interested in arguing this point with you... your trying to word this in way that makes your point seem valid... it's not.

Since the prison system is a public service, there free to close them whenever... Online multiplayer is a service. Same as as a service like Netflix. You pay and get it while it's available, but Netflix has no obligation to continue to give you movies or shows after they decide to remove a movie or show or shut down.

You bought the game, you get multiplayer as long as the company decides to provide you with it.

The problem is you (and others) fail to understand this... you may not like it, but that is a fact.

No, I didn't buy the game. That's despite having played all of the previous AoW games for hours on end, and despite having waited for a new AoW game for a long time before this post, and despite the fact that I make loads of money. If Triumph wants me to pay full price, they will provide me with non-crippled online multiplayer that doesn't have a built-in drop-dead "feature". If they are not going to provide that, then I'm going to "counter-attack" by deferring purchase until there's a sale. And since I'm primarily a single-player person the price reduction of pretty much any sale will likely be greater than the multiplayer value for me, and since I have plenty to do while I wait, this will hurt Triumph more than it hurts me (and in fact, not only won't it hurt me at all but will benefit me due to the lower price and because it also means I don't have to mess with as much untuned/undebugged code assuming they get some patches out before the first sale -- the only real reason to even buy AoW3 at full price would be to reward Triumph, but they need to act in a worthy fashion for that to happen).

So Triumph is losing some $ they would have gotten from me, and it's due to the (as I see it) DRM they put in their game. You may not like it (and Triumph may not like it), but that is a fact.

Which is fine, but irrelevant to the discussion at hand which is if this is DRM... if you don't like how the game was designed then you shouldn't buy it.

Dude, you are fucking stupid, have I told you that lately? you are a fucking slave, how can you live with yourself? really... no offence intended, just a fact!

I wont buy AOW3 either, in fact, I wont buy any GOG game anymore, I don't play them anyway, I play StarCraft 2 and Guild Wars 2 only (both on multiplayer), I just like to have a online collection but as long as GOG is going down I can not be sure that my collection will be safe on GOG servers. If I will want to buy a new games, as long as there are no more companies that sell non DRM games, I will accept DRM and I will make a Steam account. Lying about the existence of DRM is not a solution, makes me even more stubborn. This topic was interesting, I saw so many stupid people but also some so intelligent (but more stupid :D, like BKGaming, for example... what a specimen :)) ). Anyway, this ends here for me, I will just check it again to be sure that this topic wont turn into some kind of topic about how great DRM is and how much DRM has to offer to the average player!! (damn stupid peoples!)