Because there's no such thing as a skepticism bias, or if there is it's not a fallacious position. I don't respect wild speculation based one or a small handful of events. If there were a scientific study or something that showed what you were talking about was real and it had made the rounds through peer review then that'd be one thing; but it's so easy for anyone of any political belief to scrape together a dozen or so stories and just declare they prove them right. It's not impressive in the slightest.

And on top of that I'm aware that in many of the cases of things you're talking about there is wild amounts of misinformation and misrepresentation of what happened because these events are being used to reinforce preexisting political beliefs, not being used as the basis for them. For example that 7 year old child case from Texas, I just googled it quickly to refresh my memory of the events and as of last October the parents both share custody, the child is not undergoing any chemical or surgical changes, and to quote the judge "The child appears comfortable as a male, female, or gender nonspecific". And you think this is some big thing because dad says boy mom says girl? If I wanted to I could just as easily speculate that this dad is a transphobe and that the child should be separated from someone who seems hellbent on turning a private matter into a media circus.

I really cannot hammer home enough, in my opinion you and people like you have preexisting beliefs based on bigotry and a disgust or fear of people different from yourselves; and you'd rather be validated in your concerns than live in a world where there is no problem and you were just getting worked up over nothing.

As for gay and trans people and to paraphrase your position "how do you know that people are committing suicide from bullying and not just because they're fucked in the head and progressivism did that" to which I could point to a few things.

Yes, I do have studies that back me up on that.

https://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/127/5/896.short

"RESULTS: Lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth were significantly more likely to attempt suicide in the previous 12 months, compared with heterosexuals (21.5% vs 4.2%). Among lesbian, gay, and bisexual youth, the risk of attempting suicide was 20% greater in unsupportive environments compared to supportive environments. A more supportive social environment was significantly associated with fewer suicide attempts, controlling for sociodemographic variables and multiple risk factors for suicide attempts, including depressive symptoms, binge drinking, peer victimization, and physical abuse by an adult (odds ratio: 0.97 [95% confidence interval: 0.96–0.99])."

Now I'm gonna lay out a little prediction here: this is a dishonest point that you don't really care about. You'd gloat about it all day if you had any scientific backing of your position; you asked for studies from me hoping/thinking I wouldn't be able to supply it so that I would shut up on that point, and now that I do have scientific evidence to that point you're going to drop this and act like I never said it or it doesn't really matter.

wouldn't know I'm not a fan of the series, I don't really believe you but whatever. This isn't really a substative point because it doesn't really matter and i don't know what you mean by progressives, for all I know that refers to a handful of random tweets or something. Reminds me of the doom eternal fiasco

clearly you aren't following what I'm trying to say. I'm well aware there are plenty of games that don't have any sexual elements to them at all; but where if there is a game that forces the player to identify with a character that has a sexuality and they don't have any choice in things than there would be a significant controversy if there was a male on male relationship. Non-binary or trans relationships would be even more of a turn off to gamer culture, and this all for the record being no more explicit or crude or whatever than an equivalent heterosexual romance, or to some lesser extent a female on female romance.

I'm not talking about shoehorning in a gay relationship into Bioshock or something like Dragon Age where you can choose who to be romantically interested in, including nobody. More something like Fallout 4 where you are forced to start the game in a heterosexual marriage or something like Red Dead Remption 2 where the main character is a heterosexual male.

There's not a problem with either of those games having a heterosexual relationship on their own, but the fact that there is to my knowledge no major games that have similar homosexual relationships being portrayed because it'd be so upsetting to the gamer culture is my point. You don't see a massive gay gamer backlash every time they're forced to identify with a character who is heterosexual, so unless it comes down to homophobia and bigotry there's no reason why the inverse couldn't be presented at least sometime.

see above

Youl literally make claim that straight male gamers are against gay protagonists, based on a handful of controversies. You didn't even dig hard enough for Assassin's Creed: Odyssey gay backlash, when claimed those don't exist.

No, dude. I want methods and data not just results. I've read once a research paper that make claims that 20% women in US were raped once in their liftime and in the body of article the term was not rape, but "sexual assault" and "sexual assault" included sex out of pity. After "researches" basically called men, who were just so pathetic that women took pity on them and had sex, rapists, I'm not going to trust a naked result that simply claims that suicide rate in "unsupportive environment" is 20% greater.

Oh, and btw. If the difference between supportive and unsupportive environment makes only 20% then where 5 times rate comes from? Huh?



Yes, that's exactly what most people did. When I was googling the article (as I didn't remember age of a child) overwhelming majority of the articles I found referred to the child as a girl.

AC:O seems like another one of those "you choose" games which is outside what I was talking about, and the controversy seems to be built around players choice being removed which I don't think is that silly to get upset about. Maybe it's tangentially related but not really what I was talking about.

Then go read the study, which I linked. I pulled out the results so that it was easy to see what I was going off because as I successfully predicted you weren't actually going to read through the link if I just put it there. And as for the 20 percent; I don't know; but see saying "I don't know" and not going on to assume that it must be because X Y and Z, or in your case "because LGBTQ people are just messed up by progressivism" is how rational adults approach the situation. You wanna make a stronger claim on that front? Go find a study. Don't try and take little picks at mine that tip toe around the clearly stated conclusion.

Ok...?

You were talking about backlash from straight gamers and claimed that gay gamers opinions doesn't count. AC:Odyssey backlash came from LGBT+- community. And as a result the game WAS changed.

I've read it. Only abstract is free.

Why? Your stady (if you believe it) already proves my point. Only 20% difference of suicide rate is due to "hatred and bigotry" and the rest 400% is due to something else.

So, you just think a child is a trans simply because it's in favor of you ideology. So much for not being biased.

That would be due to the trans people elevating the figures, since they're generally 11 times more likely to commit suicide compared to the general population.

Interestingly, this high suicide rate does not actually reduce much (if at all) based on the progressiveness of society - so one has to wonder, why suicides are still so high in countries such as Sweden for example?

@RoadTheExile: Here's a study done over 30 years in Sweden, which was always at the forefront of acceptance and progressive ideals: https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0016885. Basically the most trans-friendly country in the entire world (or close to it), yet suicide rates over the thirty year period are still much higher than the rest of their population. Interesting, no?

Thanks for support and additional evidence. Though I'm sure that our "skeptical" and "unbiased" RoadTheExile will still be able to find some excuse to dismiss it.

Sometimes I especially like living in my "barbaric" and "backward" country - at least we do not have such sodomy fanatics.
But go ahead - I am very interested in watching your attempts to justify the unjustified.

That's pretty unfortunate, the sad reality is we cannot fix all human issues by social arrangements. I'd be curious to see how that suicide rate declines as we make strides in treatment and sexual reassignment techniques, but there is a documented correlation between gender dysphoria and things like depression. I really do hope to see that number go down. But if what we see is that the number doesn't vary based on acceptance than surely acceptance should be fine as a default position. Clearly there's no tough love "we bully you because we don't want you to go down a bad path" route so unless you're just some subhuman monster that likes brutalizing other people for being different in which case you can go walk into a wild fire for all I care, then it seems like there's no point to not just leaving these people to live their lives as they see fit.
Okay.

There's nothing wrong with it. The end. On the contrary as a traditionalist you're the one trying to justify the unjusifiable, you invent problems where none exist and sell a past system that never actually existed as the solution.

Once again - nothing wrong with being BORN gay. They are just people with strange sexual orientation for my taste - that's it.
But.
There is EVERYTHING WRONG is being made gay. And looking at some countries (Sweden And Norway comes first), I'm horrified. Children cannot judge that they are gays because you cannot understand that you are different before puberty. Period. And yet all that massive school propaganda in Sweden & Norway is aimed at children BEFORE puberty.
So - yes, I AM the enemy of LGBT activists, I AM enemy of all who instill views in heads of young generation. I'm russian and I understand the full power of propagands machine. There are no FREE choice left, you are either follow the trend of homolobby or you are declared the enemy of devocracy & freedom.
So, the end of the line - while gay propaganda exists, I shall not "leave these people to live their lives as they see fit".

Yes there is. And James Shupe's case shows possible connection.

I can say the same thing to you and others who shame white straight men for being white straight men.

Want data? Here is some: Actually, you ARE saying. Every time you use the word "homophobia", which implies that a man who is disgusted by the prospect of sucking another man's dick (or any other homosexual activity), is not normal and simply has irrational "-phobia".

Ah, those dirty-dirty smear merchants...

Now that's not exactly true, and I think we all know that. There are degrees. For instance, I would say there's a huge difference between someone who says 'I hate vegans' and someone who says 'I'm fine with vegans, I just hate people who push that opinion onto others and think nobody else should eat meat'. The latter is being upset at having something pushed on them, it has nothing to do with hating the vegans for being vegans. Or like climate change activists, there's a difference between someone who says 'I hate climate change activists' and someone who says 'I hate climate change activists who block roads and get in everyone's way for no reason.' The latter is only upset because the activists are being intrusive and annoying, not because of any bigoted hatred of them.

And there's a big discussion to be had about what rights people have, and whether they infringe on someone else's rights, and where and how much.

okay so first of all 25 people is a really small sample size, but I'm familiar with this vaguely so I won't twist your arm too hard on that. What I will twist your arm on is that this is specifically looking at people in their adolescence (ages 10-13) and from what I've heard people early on life have a high drop out rate, for lack of a better term, from their gender identity issues however post puberty most people who still report issues don't stop feeling that way.

There is something of a conundrum of what to do with that however, pre-pubsecent changes to a trans person's hormones is worth it's weight in gold compared to post pubescent changes, and in fact many people who go on hormone blockers before around 16 can quite easily pass which probably does a lot with gender dysphoria issues; of course the flip side is that many people can also make dumb choices as kids. One way or another people get hurt.

That all being said I don't see how that contradicts anything I've said or backs up anything I find disagreeable that you've said.

K.... but that's not an inherent attribute to straight white men. Unless you're a complete prude who cannot handle sex in general; being *disgusted* by gay sex implies that you are having some deeper emotional reaction to this. The normal response to that is "not my thing but you do you" and to go on with your day.

yes
In a very theoretical sense I can agree with you, but based on my personal experiences seeing these issues talked about it's not true in practice. For the most part these concerns almost always come from right wing fanatics who obsess over every random rumor and conspiracy theory about things going too far; the policies that are supposedly so bad are either straight up lies or huge misinterpretations that people actually under their effect aren't really troubled by. So these things tend to live and die in the reactosphere

And why do you think kids "make dumb choices" about their gender?

See? That's exactly your bigotry speaking. Being adverse to gay sex - not normal.