I'm surprised this thread has gone on for so long. While I think people are getting bent out of shape over nothing here (I'd rather just wait for the game to come out before forming any strong opinions), it also seems like a good portion of these criticisms are coming from just a hand full of people with a fundamental misunderstanding of the source material.

The World of Darkness, in which Vampire: The Masquerade takes place, is an intentionally exaggerated reflection of the real world, and it's filled with alternative archetypes. It's designed from the ground up as a gritty alternative to the bright fantasy world of Dungeons & Dragons. According to Mark Rein-Hagen,the creator of the Vampire tabletop RPG, the game was based around Goth/Punk culture and is intentionally fetishist in nature.

Now, maybe that's your thing and maybe it isn't, but that's the predefined world in which they're building the game. Non-heteronormative themes are perfectly acceptable in goth culture, and have been since long before Vampire was created in 1991. Granted, it's more hit-and-miss in punk culture (due to the fragmented nature), but "punk" definitely encompasses strong opinions on both ends of the political spectrum. Trying to build a wholly non-political Vampire game in a modern setting is virtually impossible without ignoring the intent of the source material. It's counterculture. Unconventionality and peculiarities that make you uncomfortable are kind of the point.

But people certainly bring their politics into games just as much as the narrative provides them, and denouncing anything that provides additional character choice in an RPG is antithetical to the cause. That's all part of role-playing. It's unnecessary to ascribe a political agenda to anything in a game that already exists in the real world, in whatever quantity, whether you want it to or not. Considering things like gender choice in an RPG a political onslaught is no different than raging over a supposed pro-war, pro-gun political narrative in Modern Warfare 3. It's not politically motivated against you. You're just dropped into someone else's story, and it's an inherent part of the experience—one nobody is forcing you to have.

That being said, while a number of people seem to have laser-focused in on the article's mention of "gender pronouns", I don't think that's the primary political stance to which the article is alluding. While such things have seemingly become "political" issues in recent years, to quote the article, "the writers are actively taking a political stance in this sequel, with its themes of art versus commerce and technological advances versus tradition." And that sounds like a pretty appropriate dichotomy between the Brujah/Toreador and the Ventrue.

For some people, games are an escape from reality, and for others they're a mirror of it. It's the whole arcade shooter vs. flight simulator debate. Either way, nobody complains about the capitalist nature of Monopoly and keeps playing. The Game of Life was just a watered-down version of real-world themes that would later lead to the rise of games like The Sims. If you don't want politics in your games or you are uncomfortable with the themes, that's okay. Those games just weren't designed for you.

This isn't about uplifting or defying anyone's politics or ideologies. It's about supporting writers' freedom to tell the story they want to tell and our right as readers, watchers, and gamers to play or not play those stories according to our own preferences.

the game looks awful in terms of combat and character animations. its even worse when you realize that the game is literally months away from release with only 5 clans to choose from and them making dlc tiers from the very beginning. i feel like this game is going to get good reviews but bad word of mouth from the gaming community. the monkey's paw is a terrible thing.

What's that?

when you wish for something so badly that it comes true, but in the worst way imaginable to the point where you regret that it happened to begin with.

The first game has mediocre combat - so what? We still play it.
About facial animations - play Mass Effect Andromeda, and then we will talk :)

I've enjoyed playing the first VTMB and was planning to preorder this, but not anymore. This will definitely be a "wait and see", to find out whether they've managed to screw it up horribly or not. Hopefully this is all a tempest in a teapot.

Wait a sec, Razorfist is upset about this game? Maybe it is worth pre-ordering.

Ah hahahahaha that article and this thread made me want VTMB 2 even more!

I'm loving how in-depth the character creation sounds. I'm sorry but why is an option for alternative pronouns such a controversy? It's not like it's being forced on you; you can choose regular pronouns if you want, so why do you fucking care?

I'm loving the exploration of art v tech and commerce, as well. That'll be darn brilliant.

As for the masculinity thing... oh my god get over it.
Also...

You mean... Prince LaCroix vs the Anarchs? Wasn't that... like... the whole point of the Anarchs?

And finally... so we're just gonna let that explosion of anti-Semitism all over the earlier pages of this thread go un-remarked upon? Nice to know that my Jewish ass is so welcome here on GoG...

I don't care about "pronoun option" itself, but it's still a huge red flag that devs are going to put identity politics and "social justice" ideology into the game.

Perspective of seeing a game infested with intersectionality messages makes me very concerned. Just like a lot of other people are concerned, as they don't want VtM to become another SJW nest. And if you're jewish, you should be concerned about that too, since intersectionality and identity politics has a lot of anti-semitism in it.

I guess I just don't have a problem with "SJW politics". I don't have a problem with options, inclusivity, and so on. I don't automatically assume that, because a game has gender-neutral pronouns as an option, that means it's gonna be some nightmare "anti-man" game written by straw feminists. And I don't automatically assume that conversations about toxic masculinity are about all masculinity or how all men are evil or whatever straw "anti-SJWs" are stuffing into it today. Frankly, I find the whole concept of "SJW" absurd enough that I tend not to take people who lob that about as an accusation seriously... I also jokingly call myself an SJW because... again... the concept of that being an insult is hilariously absurd to me.

As for anti-Semitism... yeah I'm aware of that. I'm a lefty Jew; specifically, a Jew who is rather critical of Israel and very much not a Zionist (although I don't support it myself, I don't consider BDS to be inherently anti-Semitic, nor do I assume that everyone who supports it is automatically so). I'm also painfully aware of how debates around Israel can very easily devolve into anti-Semitism. I call it out on the left all the time. But I also know that we Jews do indeed need to examine our part in world racism. I've heard the n-word used by more older white Jews than anybody else. Hell... the very first time I ever heard the "if black people get to use the word, why can't I?" "argument", it was from an older white Jewish man.

That doesn't mean that the march wasn't mired in anti-Semitism. Anyone who admires Louis Farakan (honestly I don't care to spell that right) is automatically suspect of anti-Semitism no matter who they are. I directly participated in that debate over the March when it happened, as well, and I did and still do think it was hella anti-Semitic.

I'm accutely aware of all that. But it doesn't make me "hate the Left", because in my experience, people on the Left are more likely to listen to and even learn from criticism. In my experience, Anti-Semitism on the Left is very often a result of ignorance, and not deliberate. Whereas anti-Semitism on the right (and, for me, that includes "Liberals"... I'm a lefty, not a liberal) is very often deliberate.

Well, in my experience it's the other way around.


And that's actually the reason, I'm not going to discuss anything else. Talking about why "social justice" is a nonsensical concept and why people who harrass in it's name are quite real already had me downvoted to hell here and banned on some other forums.

As for new VtM, it's released next summer and I wouldn't be able to prove my suspicions about it anyway. We can only hope that it's me, who is mistaken about the futre and not you.

One look at the US Congress and one can see that neither side listens - both spill dogma. However, the left is generally agreeable as long as you agree with them then turn potty mouth if not while the right tends to attempt conversion then says to hell with you and walks away if you don't agree.

Unfortunately there is no real Left in Congress. Liberal, sure, but no real Left. I should point out that I don't consider the Democratic party to be remotely Left. Politicians like AOC, Sanders, Warren, Omar, Tlaib, and so on are, in a normal Overton Window, centrists at best. They can only get away with calling themselves "Left" because of how far to the right the US's Overton Window has shifted. Proof of that is that Sanders can get away with calling himself a "Socialist" when, in reality, he's not even close. Just look at the fact that his and Warren's economic policies are nearly identical, yet she is quite specific about the fact that she's a capitalist... shit she gave Trump a standing ovation when he shat on Socialism.

The reason Warren insists on the fact that she's a capitalist is because, unlike Sanders, she's honest about where she stands on a normal Overton Window. Sanders isn't lying, exactly... he's just operating under the assumption that the US's Overton Window is normal when it clearly isn't. All Sanders and Warren are proposing is regulated capitalism... not socialism, which would go way further than either would even consider.

In terms of SJWs, part of the problem is how the Dems play identity politics... as a ploy to hide the realities of class oppression. At the end of the day, Dems and Repubs are owned by the same corporate interests, and are ultimately playing for the same team. The divide between them is an absolute sham. Yes the Repubs are further to the right than the Dems, but that doesn't make the Dems any less to the right...

There are tons of excellent places scattered about the internet for you geniuses to discuss American politics. Why not use one of those?

^This... is a perfect message for VtM:B2 developers!