Quick reply - I'm all riled up and will be exploding later on after classes today... ;)

Really? You don't think the people hanging back waiting to see how the wagons roll (cough , JMich) are more scummy than those putting themselves in the spotlight by trying to make cases on D1?

My vote is for pressure at the moment, although as I stated at this point in time I'd be ok with lynching him.

Actually, the longer this goes on, the more my gut feeling is that the majority of the scum are simply sitting back and watching the chaos unfold.

According to GameRager, that's four of us who are proven to be scum because we're voting for someone we suspect..!

Imo, JMich put himself in the spotlight very quickly by voting for/sticking with his vote for Vitek.
--------------------------
I bet you would. :p
====================
Nope......only you/Vitek are on my list so far, iirc(for both voting for Rob & also vocally/repeatedly trying to shift the focus off of Vitek after he started getting votes/came close to being lynched).

Quick post as im in the office today, but I'm actually agreeing with NFY here to some extent - happy with pressure, and will answer in depth later, but I was thinking exactly the same as her earlier today, most of the scum are sitting back and laughing at us all creating thin theories and getting all uptight about them.

More later when i get a minute - probably around midnight GMT

Like GameRager, you're making excuses for why he might have brought it up, not the bizarre denial...

In the context of the post his eventual explanation does make sense, it does come across as a simple summary of his playstyle/views.

NFY asks about it, Flub appears in the thread and doesn't respond (understandable, it's easy to miss).

NFY asks more directly.

And bam, here it is! Total ignorance of having mentioned claiming. I link him to the post where he mentions claiming.

Wat.

It was never a big issue until his bizarre behaviour when directly asked.

Obviously the conflict continued and he (and GameRager) seem fixated on the reasons for mentioning claiming. I'm much more interested in the reasons for crazy denial.

Although many in words, I don't think you really answered anything I posted, it's just dismissal, another case of double-standarts (when me and NFY vote same person, its totally scummy, when GR and JMich do it, it's cool because you said so), and tons of "imoing" (something that can be rightly disputed, becasue you can just repeat it's your opinion) and mainly contradicting yourself.

I also find amusing you tell me that I should be trying to prove my innocence (and leave everyone else alone because that's not what we do in mafia) and when I ask for clear outline of case against me, you refuse to provide it.

Were you ever thinking about striving for higher title, Red_Baron?

It does. I showed people numbers (I spent hour digging them) proving it wrong. If someone will claim I killed my girlfriend and I will bring her live and healthy before them to show she is unharmed, then it will make that assertion untrue. Here someone claimed something (scum more likely to hammer town, he is scum because he wasn't hammered in 1 hour), I brought evidence (scum not more likely to hammer), therefore yes, it makes them untrue. But of course, iyo it doesn't.

Where is your moustache, Robbeasy?


Ah OK, I will answer more:

Really?
So I shouldn't be trying to show why Robbeasy is scummy, while I should also be trying to convince peeople why someone else than me is scummy?

Do you like bacon Rodzaju?

Did I say something like that? I am not responsible for votes of another people, like JMich is not responsible for votes of other people against me (i.e. yours). So just tell me, HOW, I started to form bandwagon? By voting someone?

Comment allez-vous, NotFrenchYet? (Oh, my french is brilliant. :-))

Again your double standards. You just know JMich had strong reason ("Oh, Vítek wants to use different names", strong reasons my ass), but my reasons for vote are just something scummy, disregardable, weak, deflective and bandwagoning.

Hm, and Red_Baron voted Robbeasy first? But I am trying to form bandwagon.

One of us is scum? So you won't be gunning for NFY if I fiip scum? Aren't we supposed to be buddies? And why one of us? Is it just arbitrary decision?

Also this is your black and white view again. People voting me=obvious town (you know, uninformed majority, as in most games), people not agreeing with them=obvious mafia (mafia like informed minority, the way it's used in most games).

How many times have you defeated rebel flagship, SirPrimalform?

And it differs how? You basically just added "in my eyes".

I know. That's why it's loaded and threatening. Everyone of same view as me is likely scum and everyone voting me is good guy. You are basically threatening people to not take my side, otherwise they will be automatically scum.
(Loaded might not be the best term, but I think you know what I meant)

Flubbucket, who's the guy in your avatar?

That's quite strong conviction, when other people voting or suspecting me are openly admitting that there is only little evidence against me. What makes you so sure?

Do cats really obey you, drennan?

Translation: "Let this be lesson to you all. When you are suspected, just roll over and die, you are not allowed to resist. I you resist, you are scum."
Together in one post with: "You don't try to defend yourself sufficiently. If you don't defend yourself you are scum."

Some new mod for JA2 coming up, JMich?

What's so different about us compared to AFP or Red_Baron? And up your previous post, you said it's me, NFY or Red_Baron? What changed?

Can you play lute, Bard?

I thought you disagreed with this theory last game? ;-)

Bit suspicious timing of this statement. Right when you are getting into limelight, you try to shift attention to lurkers.

On the other hand, it turned out to be true in the last game.

How is it flying, A_Future_Pilot?


Please, everybody ignore italics not addressing you, it's just test.

Not on my part, though Flugente did experiment with Real Time combat in JA2.

And as Rod said, not much use posting the same thing over and over.

P.S. My reason wasn't that you wanted to use a different terminology. My reason was that even though I was under the impression that a terminology had been established, you wished to change that terminology. And since I already think that we will have quite a bit of backtracking on claims later on, I'd prefer if we kept the terminology the mod set for the game.

But of course, who reads OP or flavour...

As someone who was a Day 1 lynch, I think I do have a piece of information in that regard. It's extremely difficult to properly defend yourself in any way during Day 1. If you defend yourself, then you're obviously defending yourself because you're in the informed minority. If you don't defend yourself, then you're in the informed minority, and have basically given up since a member of the uninformed majority would be pushing to defend themselves or attack someone else. It's a lovely catch 22 that the Thug faction/Town faction/informed minority can swing around to suit their needs.

Proving innocence is extremely difficult on day 1, you have to ask yourself, is the person pushing doing so because they honestly believe it? Or are they pushing a mislynch because it's quick and easy? You don't really have any information to work with here.

I will comment though, that the loaded questions do make me suspicious because it feels like you're simply trying to erode people who aren't suspicious of Vitek by force instead of coming up with a consistant argument.

Pfft, I can barely play Guitar Hero.

I'm a bit weirded by the talk about claiming already, flubb mentioning it did seem to come out of nowhere. I am however, very interested in the people that raced to defend it though. That was quite a twist in my view of how they got to the point that it needed it.

I know we were said to ignore anything not addressed to us, but since Flubb's avatar has appeared on the icon for my Kindle's browser, I'm quite curious myself (It shows the last page I've been reading).

I'm going to Vote Gamerager for the time being, since he's the one I'm most suspicous of, although Rod is fairly up there as well, GameRager just seems to stand out more suspicion wise.

Oh, but we need to know where everyone stands. Well, we know it about you, thanks to your vote, but I wanted to include everyone. :-)
I often repeat that we often have troubles with achieving lynch because people here tend to ignore cases not directly concerning them. Disagreeing with someoen is essential part and often even the I agree post is important, because it forces players to reavel their stance bit more.
I don't like arguing of only 2 people when others keep quite or mind their own 1-on-1 debate.

That reminds me I wnted to comment on flubbucket. I don't really see him/her(? I forgot) as scummy for that role-claim thing. I don't like his/her responses to inquiries about it, but right now, I don't see them necessarily as scummy, becasue it seems to me, it's just part of his/her personality.


Hnnm doesn't sound like my thing. I like TB combat, I would be lost in real-time one.

See above.
You are one of the people I would like to hear from, though. Since you unvoted, you only posted that thing about number of votes against me and no hammer 4 days ago and then only some minor things about scumchat and similar stuff.

I am not going to discuss the terms again, but no, there was no established terminology back then.

This is ridiculous notion.
I can hardly imagine someone claiming mafia (as scum) in any game. Even less likely is that he will then claim he was wrong and he is actually part of town (in common sense).

Even when he made it intentionally confusing?

And if I put this sentence back togetther:
It basically says, it wasn't because I wanted to use different terms, but because I wanted to change terms?
I don't follow.

Plus (although it will probably bring me some votes, because people are delicate to this) voting someone because you "would prefer if we kept the terminology the mod set for the game" sounds like absurd.

Almost everyone including me, I guess.

Most people, usually excluding me, I guess.


Sorry, for all those quotes in both posts and for those silly prods, but I am in the mood for it today. I think I had too many beers.

Preview-edit: You disappointed me TwilightBard. Go get a lute.

Not quite. In fact, a cat lord is simply the male version of a cat lady.

Hey Vitek. You play FTL too?

Only a couple of times I think, once I'd managed it with the Kestral I started playing around more with other ships, but haven't refined my strategies with those enough yet to consistently reach the Flagship.

OK - a night to cogitate and a few thoughts...

Moustache - was added ages ago for a reason i now forget, decided it was time for a shave..;)

Anyhoo....

Vitek - his robust defence is starting to make me doubt my reasoning. The statistical 'facts' he came up with to refute my theory of scum not being hammered by their own did give me pause, but I still think there is merit in what I said - all games are different, all reasoning is different. Just looking objectively, if there was such a quick bandwagon formed to get someone to L-1, then that person wasn't hammered, then in my eyes that person becomes more suspicious.

Yes - there are other theories, ably pointed out by Vitek. Notice I never once said my theory was the ONLY reason the hammer didn't happen.

Yes - he wasn't at L-1 for too long. Had it gone on a day or two (IRL) I would be a lot MORE suspicious.

But - its day1, there isn't a whole lot to go on. Vitek for me was already under some suspicion with his 'oh sorry i didnt read anything properly' excuse for confusion with Mafia / non Mafia PMs, / roles / naming at the start. That appears to have been lost in the storm Vitek has raised over this current theory.

Vote stands.

Hey you, doll, you're lookin great
hips lookin to incinerate.
My collar's hot under your sight
wantcha to swing me real close tonight.

"HOLD IT! THIS IS A RAID!!"

-

"I'm just clownin." Explains Sapphires. "Thought I could get away with it bein as you are without firepower and needin of me bein kept alive. Ain't gonna happen again, cross my heart boys,
I'll just get this scoreboard for you."

THE GAME IS FIRST-TO-SEVEN-VOTES

0 - JMich --------------
1 - GameRager ------ Twilightbard,
0 - Twilightbard ------
0 - Not-French-Yet -
0 - drennan -----------
0 - Rodzaju -----------
0 - SirPrimalform ----
0 - Red_Baron -------
4 - Robbeasy -------- Red_Baron, Vitek, Not-French-Yet, A_Future_Pilot,
0 - A_Future_Pilot --
0 - flubbucket --------
4 - Vitek --------------- GameRager, Rodzaju, Robbeasy, JMich,
0 - NoLynch ----------

flubbucket, SirPrimalform, drennan,

"Hey you."
" You sure you keepin up okay?"

"Oh yeah, and the stuff's comin along nice like. Won't be long 'til we're ready to go. You get what I'm sayin?"
"I'm tryin to tell you that tonight's deadline is the 30th March. Capisce?"

Pretty please.


Link where this happened.

No. I don't even know what FTL is. :-p
Or maybe I am lying. :-) Yeah, I play it sometimes, but I suck at it. I do too many mistakes to play optimally. Few days ago I only won for the second time. With Type B Osprey (I like the artillery beam), but it pissed me, because I ended out of the top score chart, even when most places there are loses. :-/


You basically you have no reason to believe it, you just want to believe it, becuase it fits your theory of me being scum.
You know, it should be the other way around. Events should make people suspicious, you are making event suspicious because you suspect the person.

Yet you presented us onle the one you wanted, disregarding other options.

Let me then post a bit more:

See OP. That is the terminology.

Switch town and mafia, and you have my line of thinking. You say that they should use the usual terms, I say we should use the game's terms. Why is your terminology the correct one?


Especially since he made it intentionally confusing. We already have one person trying to confuse us, why do you wish to confuse us even more?

I find that you follow it correctly.
Me: "Look guys, let's assume that down is where our feet point to".
Vitek: "Ok, we all know that down is where the carpet is at, so that will be down for me."
Me: "Eh, we are in a zero gravity environment, so the usual rules don't apply."
Vitek: "I don't care, that's how it usually is, that's how we should do it."

(Bonus cookies to whoever gets the reference).

I'll just leave this here
So yes, my reason is that you intentionally try to confuse the game, by sticking to a terminology that is opposite to what this specific game uses.

Also, since you seem to have taken the time to do the statistics, may I ask the numbers for the first lynch? Were the scums happy to hammer then, or not? Because I don't think there have been 27 games in this forum, yet you do mention 27 lynches.