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General discussion (archive)HOT JIVE AT FRANKIE'S BOOKSTORE - The fifteenth edition of GOG Forum Mafia(1452 posts)(1452 posts)
(1452 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 10, 2013
People seem to have zeroed in on the "misreading" part of that post - I said I was currently suspicious of:
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NotFrenchYet: those who haven't been paying much attention to the thread or have actively mis-read things. So: flubbucket, Vitek, and GameRager.
(my emphasis)
So Vitek, I was suspicious of you for having not paid attention to the OP, but I'm nowhere near as suspicious as I was.

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Vitek: And now tell me what makes me scummy and why, because so far I have the feeling I am playing different game than most of you and probably in different dimension. I find it amusing and outrageous that some people are willing to say taht is there is no evidence and put someone to L-1 with clear conscience.
*applauds*

I want to hear more from Robbeasy, Rodzaju and GameRager in particular.

Actually, SirPrimal too. Because he unvoted Vitek when he saw he was at L-1, stated his vote was a pressure vote (despite a convincing argument about PMs that certainly swept Robbeasy along, at least) but that Vitek was under enough pressure already, and then... drifted off and got into an argument with GameRager (on behalf of flubb). That's... a little odd.

@Primal! Where do you stand on Vitek right now at this instant as you're reading this?

@Jmich, talk about speculating! If this is a standard informed minority team, they CAN'T talk during "the voting stage". That they can is a dangerous thing to assume as the basis to lynch someone...
Posted March 10, 2013
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flubbucket: In my game playing history, day chat is almost a standard. I rarely find it disallowed.
As far as we know in games here, unless one of the scum has a particular ability that allows it (in game 9 it was "Encryptor" and in the flavour the mafia team had earpieces) then they're only allowed to talk at 'night'.

EBWOP: This is for JMich too. >.>
Posted March 10, 2013
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NotFrenchYet: @Jmich, talk about speculating! If this is a standard informed minority team, they CAN'T talk during "the voting stage". That they can is a dangerous thing to assume as the basis to lynch someone...
I never claimed they could talk during the lynching phase. My speculation was that even if he missed an opportunity to attack someone, or to be wary of him, he could be reminded of it during the action phase by another scum.
Posted March 10, 2013
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Vitek: snip...

And now I have to decide whether I should vote JMich or Robbeasy for their opportunity votes.

...snip
Opportunity vote? You give what is perfectly reasonably assumed to be a slip, yet you state its an 'opportunity' vote??!!

Its day one man - Any perceived slip is given more weight than usual, and any little thing is pounced on. Just because I think the argument SPF put forward for your guilt was a strong one and I agreed with it, doesn't mean its just an 'opportunity' vote.
And - as far as I can see - you haven't really put up a good defence of SPF's reasoning. Nothing clear cut - please spell it out for us thick people...

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NotFrenchYet: Actually, SirPrimal too. Because he unvoted Vitek when he saw he was at L-1, stated his vote was a pressure vote (despite a convincing argument about PMs that certainly swept Robbeasy along, at least) but that Vitek was under enough pressure already, and then... drifted off and got into an argument with GameRager (on behalf of flubb). That's... a little odd.
It was a convincing argument. I WAS surprised that Vitek got to L-1 so quickly, but you know what makes it very interesting?? It's already been touched on by a couple of others, and I think although its a simple thing, people try to second guess it all the time..

The simple fact that Vitek got to L-1 for quite a while, but wasn't hammered!

If I were playing as Thug, if there was such an easy mis-lynch on Day 1, I would take it , and argue the hammer vote the next day. It's rare in this forums Mafia games that the hammerer has come under intense pressure. So why wasn't Vitek hammered?
Because he isn't a Gangster, and the Thugs weren't going to hammer their own. In my experience, the good guys are a lot more reluctant to hammer than the bad guys.

Vote stands on Vitek for these reasons.
Posted March 10, 2013
Quick post, have to run off.

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Robbeasy: So why wasn't Vitek hammered?
Because he isn't a Gangster, and the Thugs weren't going to hammer their own. In my experience, the good guys are a lot more reluctant to hammer than the bad guys.

Vote stands on Vitek for these reasons.
... er.

I'm going to quote Vitek back at you:
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Vitek: Or maybe all scums are already voting, or they think it's not good wagon because it would make them look bad, or two are voting and last one thinks it, or I am scum and both buddies already bussed me, or they are just hesistating to make it look convincing or they hope they will manage to draw out some informations before some lynch happens.
It comes down to a damn flimsy reason to lynch someone.

@JMich, ah, fair enough - I assumed you meant he had somewhere else to read at this moment. That was me jumping to a conclusion there.
Posted March 10, 2013
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NotFrenchYet: (my emphasis)
So Vitek, I was suspicious of you for having not paid attention to the OP, but I'm nowhere near as suspicious as I was.
I think that since game 3 I haven't read complete OP. And I am yet to read a lot of lynchscenes across various games.
Does it make me suspicious in every game?



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Robbeasy: And - as far as I can see - you haven't really put up a good defence of SPF's reasoning. Nothing clear cut - please spell it out for us thick people...
First for me thick person (yay, let's call ourselves thick), what is that supposed slip?
Saying that mafia in our role is just flavour?


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NotFrenchYet: It was a convincing argument. I WAS surprised that Vitek got to L-1 so quickly, but you know what makes it very interesting?? It's already been touched on by a couple of others, and I think although its a simple thing, people try to second guess it all the time..

The simple fact that Vitek got to L-1 for quite a while, but wasn't hammered!

If I were playing as Thug, if there was such an easy mis-lynch on Day 1, I would take it , and argue the hammer vote the next day. It's rare in this forums Mafia games that the hammerer has come under intense pressure. So why wasn't Vitek hammered?
Because he isn't a Gangster, and the Thugs weren't going to hammer their own. In my experience, the good guys are a lot more reluctant to hammer than the bad guys.
I
I
I
\ /

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Vitek: Or maybe all scums are already voting, or they think it's not good wagon because it would make them look bad, or two are voting and last one thinks it, or I am scum and both buddies already bussed me, or they are just hesistating to make it look convincing or they hope they will manage to draw out some informations before some lynch happens. Or maybe even something more I am not able come up with right now.
What I want to say, tehre may be many reasons, not just the 2 you presented as options. So I see nothing interesting about it.
Btw. There was discussion about this on MTGS, where people considered labelling something as "interesting" scummy thing, as well as "honestly". Beacuse it reeked of indirect accusation and offers the opportunity to back down and say you were just pointing out interesting stuff not scummy.
You went even further are presenting this as only option as there is no other explanation. It is not the only option and from you it's only attempt to label me as scum, with no actual basis.

What is quite a while in your opinion, I was at L-1 for a very few hours, yours presentation sounds like days.
Plus the interesting part again.

Also, town players (in general, not only here, so I am using town) are less willing to hammer than mafia (also as general term)? What about mister Nmillar?
So you are saying mafia (still general terms) are more likely to hammer town (nothign changed here) players than town (ditto)? You certainly have this backed by statistics when you try to use this to lynch someone, right?
Because I do. I know I did it somewhere already but I wasn't able to find it (does someone know where it is?) so I did it again. I went through all games here and checked who hammered town players, because you said scum would hammer me if I was uninformed majority member.

I wasn't counting game-ending lynches because they are different and mafia are not afraid to hammer.
There were 27 town lynches (exluding game-ending ones) and only 7 of them were hammered by scum + 1 was hammered by neutral (survivor).
Even if we ignore that of them was accident and presumed game-ending lynch (game 8) and 4 of them in 2-mafia games, which have bit different mechanics, because mafia there are trying to eliminate other mafia, it's quite low number, isn't it?
7/27, only 26% of town lynches were hammered by mafia.

So please, tell me, how does it make me scum?
Posted March 10, 2013
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NotFrenchYet: So you genuinely believe Vitek is scum? Mind explaining why, instead of trying to take the heat off flubbucket?
I already did(It's because of the way he seemed to be pushing for a new set of terms to be adopted after some of us had already settled on a set of terms, as well as how much he seemed to do be pushing his idea.).

Also, you may call it "taking the heat off of flubbucket" while I call it "highlighting how scummy I think it is to keep brining up flub's role claim post/"denials"".

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NotFrenchYet: Hmm. They're both quietly trying to shift focus onto those who aren't going along with their wish to lynch Vitek. Within 4 posts of each other.
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... What are you talking about? What other place?
Maybe we both feel those who are trying to shift the focus off Vitek/onto us might be scum as well? ;) :p
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I think he's talking about the "scum-chat" that mafia game admins usually create for the scum to post in.
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JMich: Scumchat?
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NotFrenchYet: Usually scum are only allowed in the chat at "night"... As flubb said this would involve "day"-talk. Which is a possibility, I guess. But it seems off to me that this was the conclusion you jumped to, rather than "he's not paying attention because he already knows who's scum".
You're forgetting(accidentally or on purpose, I wonder?) that in this game the main action takes place at night, and the secondary/scum action takes place during the day......hence the scum in this game probably get a "day"-chat instead of a "night"-chat.
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Vitek: To you smartasses who knows everything is reversed in this game and insist on using it as law, Night is right now and Day is the phase when informed minority and power roles send their actions and talking is not allowed here. You should learn to read or remember things you read. :-/ So know what? Are you all scums for forgetting it? Hmm......
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And now tell me what makes me scummy and why, because so far I have the feeling I am playing different game than most of you and probably in different dimension. I find it amusing and outrageous that some people are willing to say that is there is no evidence and put someone to L-1 with clear conscience.
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Also please let me know what I was supposed to forget or mis-read so I can complete my knowledge. Because I am not aware of anything I forgot, missed or misremembered.
This is second time in row people decided I forgot something and no one ever bothers to tell me what it was and how it makes me scummy. I know you all know better what I did or didn't like you did know in previous games, but I still want to believe I know something about my actions even after I am being proved wrong for the second time.
You know, it's kind of annoying when people decide something, convinced they know your better and memory more than you.
I actually remember all that quite clearly.
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Well I already did(several times, and to others as well), so I shant repeat myself. Also why is it outrageous for some of us to vote you/others if we have a gut feeling/strong suspicion(or as strong as it can be on day one)? Imo it's a valid strategy on day one & it's better than voting randomly.
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Either your memory really is bad, or you're trying really hard to cover for possible past slips you might have made.

(Pre-post addition: I am only up to post239[I read slow, plus i'm tired/going to bed soon.]. I will read/reply to more posts when I can later today/tomorrow.)
Posted March 10, 2013
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GameRager: You're forgetting(accidentally or on purpose, I wonder?) that in this game the main action takes place at night, and the secondary/scum action takes place during the day......hence the scum in this game probably get a "day"-chat instead of a "night"-chat.
If I had forgotten, as you suggest, why did I put "night" and "day" in inverted commas in the very post you quoted? -_- You're describing exactly what I posted. And possibly being needlessly confusing? Doesn't matter anyway cos I jumped a link in JMich's reasoning.

Also Vitek's #246 contains a quote that is attributed to me but is actually Robbeasy... Should link to #244 I believe.
Posted March 10, 2013
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NotFrenchYet: Also Vitek's #246 contains a quote that is attributed to me but is actually Robbeasy... Should link to #244 I believe.
Yeah, thanks. I quoted Robbeasy's post, it contained your quote, and it seems I deleted wrong quote marks.
Posted March 10, 2013
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NotFrenchYet: @Primal! Where do you stand on Vitek right now at this instant as you're reading this?
Right this second?

I'm confused by him. His dodgy 'appliances' comparison only makes sense if he misread/misremembered/didn't read something or read something different from me. His general reaction to the situation feels scummy, but I'm wary of trusting that feeling because I thought he was pretty scummy in the last game (hence my hasty unvote when I saw him at L-1).

At this moment, I haven't read beyond this post, so please bear that in mind if something exciting has happened since.
Posted March 10, 2013
I had a thought while showering.

I'm trying to understand the mechanics of this game and I remembered a game I played some months ago themed on the book Sphere. It started with only one player being on the scum team. Each night phase someone entered the sphere and either joined the scum team or activated "powers" or triggered events.

Some sort of "infiltrator" or maybe recruiter was spoken of in the story right??

This came to me because of the quickness of the train but the lack of lock on Vitek. It is possible all of the scum team have already voted for Vitek and there is no one left to lock him.


Any thoughts on this notion or am I all wrong?? I will now pretend to work.
Posted March 11, 2013
Sounds like a cult idea flubbucket, which I would doubt to be in effect here - primarily due to how many seems against the notion due to how much it can ruin a game.

As for other targets Vitek, I agree - which was actually my point of that post :P Though something must have happened, cause I keep having the feeling that I am not really playing a mafia game as usual - Did the forum layout on GOG change or something or have I just been looking at word to much.

Anywho, I find Robbeasy's reasoning for keeping his vote on Vitek pretty shallow to put t mildly and its odd given that he could just stick to the "slip" reasoning instead of making the argument about hammering and town.

This speaks to me as an attempt to make Vitek appear more thug/scummy/non-mafia joker - but as the reason doesn't cope with my own notion that town should be more inclined to hammer than town, due to scums attempts at staying under the radar and the natural notice placed on the guy who hammers.

As such I feel my vote should go to Robbeasy - vote Robbeasy
Posted March 11, 2013
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Red_Baron: snip...

Anywho, I find Robbeasy's reasoning for keeping his vote on Vitek pretty shallow to put t mildly and its odd given that he could just stick to the "slip" reasoning instead of making the argument about hammering and town.

This speaks to me as an attempt to make Vitek appear more thug/scummy/non-mafia joker - but as the reason doesn't cope with my own notion that town should be more inclined to hammer than town, due to scums attempts at staying under the radar and the natural notice placed on the guy who hammers.

....snip
Show me a day 1 theory that isn't shallow.

Yes, there are other ways / reasons / ideas around hammering and when to and when not to, but my scenario is just as valid as the others, in fact in my opinion a little more valid, hence my adding it to the 'slip' reasoning for voting for Vitek. He has since come up with statistics to prove me wrong in my assumption, but I still think the scenario I outlined has some merit.
Posted March 11, 2013
Posting to avoid another prod.
Joe has sharp fingernails!

Not much has happened in the last few days, so not much more to say.
I'm not completely convinced Vitek is scum, but he's the one I am the most suspicious of, admittedly on very flimsy reasoning.....
Posted March 11, 2013
(Up to post# 243 currently......will finish reading some more later)


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A_Future_Pilot: Also one side note...GameRager, could you please write posts by quoting the individual sections of what you're referring to instead of separating them with --------------- ? It just makes it a lot easier to read :)
I could do this, but(with how I type fast/etc while playing mafia/posting to GOG) i'd probably end up making more errors than I usually do. And seeing as we can't edit posts I would probably end up with multiple post sections attributed to the wrong people. I might eventually number/letter the individual sub-sections of each post, though.

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NotFrenchYet: Actually, SirPrimal too. Because he unvoted Vitek when he saw he was at L-1, stated his vote was a pressure vote (despite a convincing argument about PMs that certainly swept Robbeasy along, at least) but that Vitek was under enough pressure already, and then... drifted off and got into an argument with GameRager (on behalf of flubb). That's... a little odd.
I find it odd myself that you find it odd that SPF was arguing with me over my "defense" of FlubBucket(which was over the whole role claim stance mention/"denial" Flub did earlier), yet you repeatedly went after Flub for the whole role claim/"denial" thing(to an unusually high degree) as well.
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This is my favourite topic
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General discussion (archive)HOT JIVE AT FRANKIE'S BOOKSTORE - The fifteenth edition of GOG Forum Mafia(1452 posts)(1452 posts)
(1452 posts)