Pfft, I wish I had that kind of enthusiasm. Unfortunately my points have yet to really have a reply, and without that, I really can't move forward. I know that weekends are slow, but this game has already gone on for a while without the kind of posting that we see in normal games.

My points, for anyone who's curious are: My post against NFY's argument, which there is apparently a counter argument in the works. And my call against Stoic's partial claim, where he claims that he's a vanilla townie.

That's the strangest reason for not voting I've ever heard.

Honestly, I don't see a very bright future for this game. Of the 13 players alive, there are at least two people who need replacements (quite possibly more) and a crucial player (NFY) is not being terribly useful right now; that really is quite a lot.. I feel there's nothing at all I could personally do to get this thing moving, and it saddens me.

Well, unlike M6, we at least still have a mod. Possibly.

I think I've addressed everything that was directed at me so far, did I miss something?

Yeah sorry for being missing all this time. I've been reading but there's really nothing to go on... It's just a series of circular posts between stoic and NTF. I'm really not sure what else to say... I mean, does anyone have an idea of something we could do to inject more information into the game and move it forward? Maybe something like a mass-claim or I dunno what else is available, but I'd suggest we try something.

I don't think a Mass Claim is going to do us a lick of good at this point, except give the Mafia a very clear shot at who to target at night. I think what really needs to happen is people voting, putting pressure on what they don't like, and asking questions and raising arguments.

I think we still have at least 5 people not voting. We need to get it going here.

A few things, in no particular order

Well, there's a few things here, the first is it's generally considered bad form to post in the game topic if you aren't playing. There's a bit that goes into 'How to play' that might be teachable, but since I'm playing right now I'm not sure how to really go about responding.

It feels like you've ignored a few negative reactions to your claim, and a few of those have left openings where you could fill us in on why you thought this would be a useful thing to do at this time.

Non-pressured claims (and you weren't pressured) should ONLY be done when there's a positive to the town in the claim.

And this sounds so scummy that it's a bit nuts. The way I see it, you should be voting and explaining exactly why you feel that way...

I think it's more then just not voting, it's also just coming up with arguments and questions that allow us to move the game forward. Because without the arguments, what are we to do come dawn of the next Day? Draw Straws? (Hell, that might be more effective at this point.)

If you go back, you'll find that I did respond, I just didn't respond well because, to be honest, I can't. This is my first game, and I made a foolish mistake in that respect. I just saw two other claims and then figured I was supposed to do so also without really looking into the strategy.

So, sadly, I will have to repeat what I said before: with regards to my unneeded claim, you guys are going to have to decide whether I was foolish or scummy.

It's not that I don't want to give you something better than that, I just can't - factually. I simply had no effing clue that I wasn't supposed to do that. lol

Expect a post from me later today..!

Having done something very similar in my first game, I have some sympathy for this....

Fun fact: 6 of the 9 finished games of mafia on this site were over before reaching post 1000. Two of the remaining three ended before 1150. (#9 is the odd one out with staggering 1786 posts.)

We're currently at 1033 and stuck in day two.

Also, chart. #6 was unfinished and #11 is in progress, obviously.

[All of this is a side effect of me gathering information for the newbie-friendly M12 which I'm currently in the process of drawing up. I just thought it was interesting.]

Right, well let's finish in the next 753 posts... 752 now.

I still think Xzyem is the scummiest, but he seems to be long gone. I don't know if it'd be fair to subject a replacement (even if we could find one) to that kind of pressure straight off. This is exactly what happened with Orryy in game #9!

I'm worried that we literally don't have any more players to serve as replacement. What should we do?

Well, 'Let's Lynch Stoic' was partly in jest. I'm getting pretty frustrated with the speed of this game and am trying my best to inject some enthusiasm. Considering the D1 we had, the fact that people actually suspect me for this is a bit crazy...

@Bazilisek:
I'm going to hold hands up over the NK argument, since when I read back it's clear that my thought process is really not visible in the posts, and I'm on shaky ground as it is. I'll just point out that #835 was written the day after D2 started (27th March) and was my second post of the Day, and that #871, where I make my assumption was the 30th March. That's ample time for my thoughts to change (which is of course what happened), even if I didn't make it obvious in my posts.

I'd really like other people's thoughts on this. Does anyone else think "1-2 sentence case" is helpful in any way at all? Because I really, really don't. It just distorts.

I'd also like people's opinions on the New Lizard's claim that our rephrased arguments were just as bad as the actual thing. Jefe for one reacted after seeing the truncated versions, and TB clearly considered mine was well set up enough to attack me PBP from it. What were you expecting us to write, Baz? Seriously?

TB coming up in separate post...

Not really. I get the idea of summarizing... it can be helpful. However, 1-2 sentences don't tell the whole story, which is why I struggled to rephrase my case.... and I imagine the same thing happened for you.

I'm really not sure what you're getting at here, Bardy, and to be honest, I'm starting to look sideways at you. Your supposed 'off' points about my arguments are really paper-thin.

- You don't think responding to a simple question with a case and a vote counts as "exploding" ?

- You call BS on a vote that the voter himself thought might be regarded as an OMGUS vote, and then rattle off talking about Damuna? What? You do remember that Stoic's first long post with the vote was in response to a post about Xzyem, right?

- How does calling Stoic out on misattributing posts weaken my case? I pushed it because, frankly, I was exasperated by the incredibly flippant response of two words: "my bad". He put together a contradiction from posts belonging to two players whose names (and current avatars) don't remotely resemble mine. Who looks like they're propping up a case here?*

- *Headdesk* Ye gods. I have NOT pushed the Damuna piece of evidence. I responded "before it gets out of hand" and in doing so proved to others (and myself) that it was a bad point. I say again, I AGREE, it's flimsy and badly constructed. In fact it's by far the WORST piece of evidence.

- #871: my reasoning is that taking a pot-shot on N1 is not a pro-town move, since the odds of hitting a townie instead are pretty damn high. Therefore I think it's more likely to be an SK. I'm sticking to this idea for the moment, because without some initial assumptions we're going nowhere fast (see D1...), but I'm prepared to be persuaded otherwise. It also doesn't particularly affect my play, since it just means one more anti-town to hunt out. Basically it's an assumption that doesn't hurt, and that has actually rattled a couple of people: baz and yourself.

--

I agree with Baz, Quad, that's an odd reason for not voting, particularly since stoic's L-4 and I'm L-5 (i.e. relatively far from the danger zone)

Stoic, could you please respond to this part of Ye Olde Original Case:
Reference post: http://www.gog.com/en/forum/general/gog_forum_mafia_11_the_goghammer_festival/post911]#911
[/url]


In other news, we should go back over D2 and see who's been lurking and killing discussions. This is a slow, slow game...

* I appreciate mistakes happen, Stoic, and if you really are town please don't think I'm judging you personally here. It's just that currently I think you're scum trying to get me lynched. :)