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Sometimes, there will be older titles that don't get the re-release treatment. It's just the way things are.

In these cases where the company either a) doesn't realize they own it so unless someone brings it up to them it's fucked or b) the company knows they own it, they just don't care or c) both, I honestly 100% support abandonware, because to me that is the very definition of it, and without these abandonware sites a lot of these games would be damn near lost.
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teceem: But that wasn't the original request here. It was about making it legally and digitally available for everybody. Despite its faults, I'd rather play the original WC1 than most current AAA games (including any online games, like WoW).
I see, I jumped the gun on assuming this thread was advocating a remaster. For DOS versions of WC1 and 2, it wouldn't be a problem from a technical stand point to just make it a free download like Bethesda did with Arena and Daggerfall. However, in the UK, I think Sold out (and/or Xplosive) software still sell CD copies of Warcraft 1 and 2 so there might be a conflict of interest there. But that was years ago so things might have changed by now.

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sanscript: So it's stupidity to let others choose? Your errata logic is like; because me --> then also others. You're actually arguing that it should stay buried for others also as nostalgia because you don't see a modern use of it, right?
Okay.........., now that you've finished twisting my post out of context, answer me this. Where did I say it's stupid to let others choose? Where did I say because I think this way, others do to? Where did I say WC1 and 2 should stay buried? And where did I say WC1 and 2 are of no modern use? Because I said NONE of those things.

My argument was, it is worth it FINANCIALLY to bring back WC 1 and 2 in the form of a remaster (though I see now that wasn't the OPs original point)? Blizzard, along with many AAA companies today try to appeal to the largest demographic of gamers as possible and that's where the company resources go. IMO, Diablo 3 was garbage and completely ruined what D1 and D2 established, but D3 was made to appeal to the largest audience of gamers possible for maximum profit. It sucks, but that's the way it is.

DOS versions of WC1 and 2 are already preserved on some abandonware sites and then there's the Warcraft 2: Combat Edition. They are already there for people who choose to try them out, no one is stupid for choosing to try them out. Unfortunately, the industry does a crappy job of preserving classic titles leaving us with abandonware sites. AAA companies are about profit and there isn't always a financial incentive to preserve classic games. However, at least classic games are being preserved.

Incidentally, I don't think good old games should be forgotten and nor do I think they have no modern use. Old games have both nostalgic and educational value. Newer generations can still look back on them and see how games have evolved. Game devs can look back on older games and see what is was about those games that immortalized them and take inspiration from them. If nothing else, older games can still be looked at to sate someones curiosity.


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sanscript: I've zero nostalgia when it comes to WC1, Ultima or many other games, but I would never assume that people would not because of my experience (or lack of).
Neither would I, I said no such thing either.

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sanscript: Several has actually been surprised that people has shown an interested in their project when they released it into the wild, even if it was old and they themselves didn't think anyone would care or be interested.
"Surprised" being the operative word here. As in, they aren't sure how things will turn out which means risk was a factor. AAA companies really just want to maximize profits with as little risk as possible.



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IwubCheeze: WC1 Warlocks and conjurors were incredibly unbalanced. Demons and water elementals could take and dish out a ton of damage and when their timer ran out, the caster had full mana again to spawn a new one and continue their rampage. It was possible to just sit in your base with 4 warlocks/conjurors and win.
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Kipper: Isn't that yet another reason to tweak and remaster gameplay?
Sure, you could do that but then you risk altering the gameplay which changes the feel of game and might be met with resistance. Look at the remastered System Shock for example. While I thought the remaster was excellent, it did feel like a different game in some ways. In my experience, the SS remaster was faster paced than the original. Many didn't like Doom 3 BFG Edition due to the over correction of the originals lack of lighting. Also, look at some of the GOG reviews for the remastered editions of Monkey Island 1 and 2, some people were happy with the changes, some were not. It's part of the risk of remastering.
Post edited December 10, 2017 by IwubCheeze
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CymTyr: A lot of WoW bashing going on in here. WoW is not a bad game, and is their main cashcow, so of course they support it the most.
The cashcow is the major issue from my perspective now. I don't think it's a terrible game, but unless you have money to literally burn, it's hard to say it's worth $150/yr in sub fees plus box costs (roughly $20/yr average).

And I say that as someone who played for like 4-5 years for literally insane hours of my life. When I wasn't buying other games, and was only playing WoW 8-10 hours a day, then blowing my entire monthly entertainment budget on it made sense.

With bundles, free games, gifts, etc. I probably spend maybe $50/yr, and get as much/more value for that. A few years back when they had the $5 panda holiday special with 1-month play built in, I picked it up and messed around. It was fine, but not mind-blowing.

The pick-up community was still really hit/miss after you get past the cakewalk dungeons.

Is it a bad game? No. Is it worth anywhere near what it costs?

That's more an opinion question, but shearly from an opportunity cost POV, I'd say no unless your budget really won't miss the money or you play a looooot.
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CARRiON-XCII: I honestly 100% support abandonware, because to me that is the very definition of it, and without these abandonware sites a lot of these games would be damn near lost.
Amen!

Personally, I finished all there is to finish in all Warcraft RTSs (well except Frozen Throne campaign on Hard, that one is not fun at all for any non-Koreans) and have absolutely legal means to play them again at any time I wish, but those legends should really be given a chance to become GOG's most sold titles.
Post edited December 10, 2017 by BranjoHello
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IwubCheeze: --
Well, it was because of how you phrased it (look at your last paragraph again), and I did include the question mark to ask (in case I got it wrong) rather than just accusing you for meaning it.

But never mind, we'll just agree on not to agree on that. In any case I guess I was wrong.
Post edited December 10, 2017 by sanscript
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BranjoHello: but those legends should really be given a chance to become GOG's most sold titles.
Amen!

If only Blizzard would even consider partnership with GOG, in the first place... That's why before a gamer's eyes, they are 2x deeks... Because they don't release their best oldies in digital release themselves and because they don't allow others to, either. It's not even about remaster or whatnot; the classic oldies! Warcraft 2 would have broken the records, here in gog!
Perhaps Blizzard are worried about their brand reputation and don't want to be seen marketing and selling a game that is pretty inferior by today's standards. Or something like that.

Warcraft 1 and 2 have aged quite a bit mechanically yes but I think that at least WC2 still has a great and unique atmosphere going for it. So along with its solid and polished gameplay it may still make for an enjoyable experience for new players. And the atmosphere of course comes through in things that have not aged : the wonderful music, the great artwork and the cheerfully over the top voice acting and sound effects.

For example the first thing you see and hear is a kickass tune against an awesome drawing of an elf and troll in combat: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUF12vUSlUQ
And then before you start with a level you have to contain your excitement listening to an intense and over the top briefing: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bTwyDr0VUsA&feature=youtu.be&t=314

Perhaps selling the remastered games individually will be a bit much. But I'd be prepared to pay a scary amount of money for a Remastered Blizzard Classics bundle with:
Warcraft 1 & 2
Lost Vikings 1 & 2 (CD version of the 2nd one)
Diablo 1 & 2

Remaster those with proper widescreen resolutions and modern system compatibility and I'm certain they'll make a killing.
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IwubCheeze: --
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sanscript: Well, it was because of how you phrased it (look at your last paragraph again), and I did include the question mark to ask (in case I got it wrong) rather than just accusing you for meaning it.

But never mind, we'll just agree on not to agree on that. In any case I guess I was wrong.
It's alright, no harm done. Considering written language lacks tonality and visual expression (which is where most communication is done), misunderstandings are likely.

Still, I've had face to face discussions about this topic and had 1 person tell me "Starcraft 1 is too old and not worth playing anymore". Tried asking him what was it about Starcraft 1 that makes the game too old. The answer was predictable, all he could mention was the graphics. I'm not one of those people though.
off topic, but i couldn't resist

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pGl4slGxY8U

and

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RwWh1xy6gvU
Post edited December 10, 2017 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
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CymTyr: A lot of WoW bashing going on in here. WoW is not a bad game, and is their main cashcow, so of course they support it the most.
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bler144: The cashcow is the major issue from my perspective now. I don't think it's a terrible game, but unless you have money to literally burn, it's hard to say it's worth $150/yr in sub fees plus box costs (roughly $20/yr average).

And I say that as someone who played for like 4-5 years for literally insane hours of my life. When I wasn't buying other games, and was only playing WoW 8-10 hours a day, then blowing my entire monthly entertainment budget on it made sense.

With bundles, free games, gifts, etc. I probably spend maybe $50/yr, and get as much/more value for that. A few years back when they had the $5 panda holiday special with 1-month play built in, I picked it up and messed around. It was fine, but not mind-blowing.

The pick-up community was still really hit/miss after you get past the cakewalk dungeons.

Is it a bad game? No. Is it worth anywhere near what it costs?

That's more an opinion question, but shearly from an opportunity cost POV, I'd say no unless your budget really won't miss the money or you play a looooot.
Thank you. One thing I pride myself on, is getting different opinions. I actually want to give up WoW again, but for me, I save money when I play it because I buy less games overall.

Is it worth it for me? Psychologically, I feel it is, but that's not to say it actually is. I might just be trying to justify playing it but in reality I should be strong enough to not buy every game I'm interested in.
it's probably got nothing to do with wow
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morolf: I think that's actually true tbh, they're incredibly dated, not just in the interface which could be modernized, but in the core gameplay (with humans and orcs being identical apart from spells and some minor details; also mission design in the campaign pretty simple). Only reason to still play them today would be nostalgia.
It's not that bad. I've just fired up my old WC2 installation and played the first part of the campaign. Yes, the controls are bad by todays standard, but the game still is fun to play for me.
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morolf: I think that's actually true tbh, they're incredibly dated, not just in the interface which could be modernized, but in the core gameplay (with humans and orcs being identical apart from spells and some minor details; also mission design in the campaign pretty simple). Only reason to still play them today would be nostalgia.
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eiii: It's not that bad. I've just fired up my old WC2 installation and played the first part of the campaign. Yes, the controls are bad by todays standard, but the game still is fun to play for me.
And as an enthusiast like me, sets the plot for WC3. Especially after the Human campaign.
Still playing WC 2. :P Just built a Fortress on an island to win a mission. I think that is a rip off, or the other way around, of a AOE mission.
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tinyE: Still playing WC 2. :P Just built a Fortress on an island to win a mission. I think that is a rip off, or the other way around, of a AOE mission.
Yea, you can basically just rush to eliminate the forces and build it. Kinda cheap, but WC3 features those a lot :D I still cannot defeat all the Human forces on Undead08. Not that it's needed, but it helps a lot

EDIT: Kinda like in StarCraft Protoss07 just destroy the orange Nexus. In lorewise it makes sense, since you're in a hurry and outnumbered, but in reality no f'n way
Post edited December 14, 2017 by Kipper