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General discussionWhy are we being treated like second class citizens?(103 posts)(103 posts)
(103 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 26, 2015
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moonshineshadow: Now I am completely confused. Sure my post does not exist there. But I also did not get your point from the beginning. You make it sound like the forums would be merged, with all that moving etc. But I think the idea is more to implement another forum software here. And I also don't get why you were talking about the games linked to our account. That has nothing to do with the forum software. Which can be seen quite easily by all the times the forum is only giving an error page but the library works fine.
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Goodaltgamer: No, not what I posted:

Plus,, how do you want to transfer all the existing posts and subforums? How do you want to move the reviews over? How do you want to move the chat logs over?

Next thing: Your accounts and the games linked to it. How do you want to move those over? It is changing every second. Shall they stop business? Who will pay for?

That was what I was talking about

hmmm...library working fine: Might just have to do how much resources you allocate to certain processes and for sure you will allocate most of CPU/bandwidth to the account part and not the spamming...ahem, meant to say forums ;)
Ah whatever. You believe this all is one big thing. And I believe the forum is seperate from the account and the game pages. So I don't see a problem with changing the forum software.
And normally the forum should be based on a database with the posts, so it should be possible to move them over to a new forum software. I did that with a forum and it worked fine.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Cyraxpt: If that is the case then why not come here and actually explain what and what not can be done here? Part of the problem is that there isn't any communication besides the usual "we're listening and we care", that's actually offensive if we think about it, it's just a way to make us quiet by giving false promises.

Because people abuse that freedom? I've seen people leaving the forum or barely showing up on the forum because they're being harassed by someone. Did you know that it's possible to create an account without a real email? Gog doesn't even verifies if the email does exist, not that it matters since it's simple and free to make email accounts.

The system isn't perfect, as i said, gog is allowing the community to moderate their forums (doing their work) and it can be abused (as it was proved).
I don't know, people are afraid of someone censuring their post and yet we have people grouping up and deleting post they don't agree with, i don't see how's that any better...

Because the system isn't anywhere near perfect and i wouldn't called it "working" when you get errors, missing notifications, problems purchasing games (has been happening lately), etc.
I'm not saying that you're wrong, galaxy has proved that you got a point and i'm also not aware of how web development (or whatever is called) works but some of my points are corrected by Barefoot essentials, so why can't gog integrate that system on their forum?
I admit communication could be far better. But that would need a resource again, so back to money, would you pay more for your games to just have a shinier forum?
Breaking promise: GOG exists to make money, right? But they try at least to satisfy us gamers with DRM-free SW, right? So if the budget does not allow it (to big sum for example....)

Abuse: agreed....
But we as a community could also react, speak out against, upvote somebody who didn't deserve it, make a screenshot and report it, don't be a lazy whatever ;) (No insult intended ;) )

No, I must admit I didn't know (email...could you PM me with details? I am just interested....)

Purchasing: I am not sure if it is GOG or because the servers are located in Cyprus. Because of Greece certain banks, whatever, might have blacklisted them again.

Barefoot essentials....how to say it simple???? External SW which does work on top of the GOG-SW....You could compare it a bit too like running a Antivirus SW on top of your Windows. There you could ask the same question: Why? ;) And it would have a far more legit reason there ;)
Posted July 26, 2015
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hedwards: Yeah I know, the main disagreement I had was that they could make it happen, it's probably a matter of paperwork.

There's also the NIH problem that they seem to have. There's plenty of free and inexpensive forum software out there that wouldn't suffer from all the BS.

I was on my college's website for the first time in years and their forum software gives you a warning if the post you're responding to is old. That's something that this site really could use. Although, it should probably warn about the age of the thread or something similar.
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Goodaltgamer: I admit I could have phrased it better ;)

Again: If you would be just talking about the forum SW, you might be right, but what about your library? That is the same here. And I don't know any free or inexpensive SW which would manage this at the same time.

Narcotizing threads which shall RIP, yeah I agree ;) But again on the other hand, I could think of reason to allow it, especially if somebody did use the search function and found an existing thread with the same problem, why not?
I don't think the software for the library is going to be freely available. It's niche and the people that are writing it are using it to sell things.

That being said, the resources they waste trying to reinvent the wheel on the forum are resources that aren't available for fixing the library and working on Galaxy.

It's largely a matter of priorities. They shouldn't be wasting a lot of time and money on things that have free or affordable versions until they've gotten the other things squared away.
Posted July 26, 2015
Probably because we make do with whatever scraps they throw our way. They seem to wholeheartedly believe that the real customer bulk is on the social networks such as facebook, and for all I know, they may actually be right. We are but an afterthought, and improving our experience is very low on their priority list.
Posted July 26, 2015
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deleted_user:
I agree. It is rather sad, especially since there the owned by the same company so there is no real reason GOG couldn't just take the forum software from the CDPR forums and integrate them here instead of this crappy forum there using now. It does feel like we are second class citizens, so many small changes could be made to improve this site and a decent web developer should be able to do without much issue and yet here we sit, the site largely the same as it was 2 or 3 years ago when I joined. :/

It's bad enough that developer/publishers treat us as second class citizens to Steam, but when GOG does it to there own customers it is really really sad.
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Goodaltgamer: Could be legal reason. That would be seen as a subsidizing and might be illegal. Plus,, how do you want to transfer all the existing posts and subforums? How do you want to move the reviews over? How do you want to move the chat logs over?

Next thing: Your accounts and the games linked to it. How do you want to move those over? It is changing every second. Shall they stop business? Who will pay for?

Making changes to a web site is not easy and making changes on a live site can really make more trouble than leaving a slightly ;) broken SW in place.

If they would take everything down for a few days, people would shout as well and nobody could guarantee that everything would be working straight away. I just imagine the outcry , my game xyz has been removed from my account! Or, I can not find my recipe thread anymore (you shall visit it ;) )

For making small changes: Depending on what they use as a SW, that might not be so easy. If i.e. you would need to activate a different module, this could create other problems. Just think of the problems relating to certain browsers.

On the other hand, why second class citizens? Here we have far more freedom as I have seen on a lot of other sides, where certain words and threads are being removed automatically. Here GOG is far more friendly with the user, better to say treating us as a FULL citizen than on other forums.

so only because they don't have the latest shiny SW makes GOG now bad? Did you guy think of what GOG stands for? ;)
In the tech world there is one big saying: Never ever touch a working system ;)
I doubt there is any legal barrier unless there using another companies software, and I was not talking about transferring anything over except the software or code from CDPR's forums to here on GOG. Besides there is plenty of forum software out there (like phpBB as an example) that can be used for free or even paid for that could be integrated into the site that would be better than these forums. As far as saving what is here on the forums... meh, not a huge deal. Might be nice to start fresh with a new system.

I know how web development works, and while my area is software development I've sat through enough web development classes, there are some simple changes they could do that really should not be hard. There really is no excuse for how stuff ends up broken or stays broken around here. Looks like amateur hour sometimes.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by user deleted
Posted July 26, 2015
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Goodaltgamer: No, not what I posted:

Plus,, how do you want to transfer all the existing posts and subforums? How do you want to move the reviews over? How do you want to move the chat logs over?

Next thing: Your accounts and the games linked to it. How do you want to move those over? It is changing every second. Shall they stop business? Who will pay for?

That was what I was talking about

hmmm...library working fine: Might just have to do how much resources you allocate to certain processes and for sure you will allocate most of CPU/bandwidth to the account part and not the spamming...ahem, meant to say forums ;)
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moonshineshadow: Ah whatever. You believe this all is one big thing. And I believe the forum is seperate from the account and the game pages. So I don't see a problem with changing the forum software.
And normally the forum should be based on a database with the posts, so it should be possible to move them over to a new forum software. I did that with a forum and it worked fine.
You didn't answer or think about what I posted.....
Why do I think it is the same, quite easy: Think of all the accounts hacked, they lost the access, so either the login verification would be separated, for what I do not see any indication or it is the same system.
Your credentials are the same....

You can log in on any page, correct? You are not being diverted to a separate login screen, hence valid assumption, it is the same.
Posted July 26, 2015
One word: MODERATION.

Think it over again. We here ain't exactly half bad. I wouldn't trade freedom for more precise and clockwork forum catering.

My two cents.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by KiNgBrAdLeY7
Posted July 26, 2015
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hedwards: I don't think the software for the library is going to be freely available. It's niche and the people that are writing it are using it to sell things.

That being said, the resources they waste trying to reinvent the wheel on the forum are resources that aren't available for fixing the library and working on Galaxy.

It's largely a matter of priorities. They shouldn't be wasting a lot of time and money on things that have free or affordable versions until they've gotten the other things squared away.
Me think so as well, paid or done by themselves (what I assume to have full control)

ok, agreed as well....but using a free forum SW, how to you want to link those two together (meaning account and forum)? Nightmare...2 different databases? Don't get me started ;)

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deleted_user:
I doubt there is any legal barrier unless there using another companies software, and I was not talking about transferring anything over except the software or code from CDPR's forums to here on GOG. Besides there is plenty of forum software out there (like phpBB as an example) that can be used for free or even paid for that could be integrated into the site that would be better than these forums. As far as saving what is here on the forums... meh, not a huge deal. Might be nice to start fresh with a new system.

I know how web development works, and while my area is software development I've sat through enough web development classes, there are some simple changes they could do that really should not be hard. There really is no excuse for how stuff ends up broken or stays broken around here. Looks like amateur hour sometimes.
AS I admitted in post 30, could have phrased it better, it was more concerning financial legal stuff ;)

phpBB is on the other hand more stress for the servers.....
As I said, I agree, but we don't know under which budget they have to operate...
Post edited July 26, 2015 by Goodaltgamer
Posted July 26, 2015
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Cyraxpt: Have you guys ever visited the CDProjekt Red forums? It's like first class in there while we get this forum where there's not a week where a problem shows up (broken notifications, friends add me spam, gogbears pages, etc). ...
Yes, I did. That's why I don't really understand the question. Why can't you use both and just pick the things you like best? It's not like anyone is restricted to either one or the other.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by Trilarion
Posted July 26, 2015
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Goodaltgamer: AS I admitted in post 30, could have phrased it better, it was more concerning financial legal stuff ;)

phpBB is on the other hand more stress for the servers.....
As I said, I agree, but we don't know under which budget they have to operate...
That was just an example, and as far as trying to link them together, it really doesn't have to be. Hell steam had separate forums from there platform for years, so either they need to get there shit together or take option 2 and let someone else take over the development and they just use it.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Goodaltgamer: ... Could be legal reason. That would be seen as a subsidizing and might be illegal. ...
Surely not. GOG is a 100% daugther company of CDPR. They can totally share assets any way they want.

There is only one possible interpretation. They don't give GOG customers the nice forum features because they think that GOG customers are happy with it, not because they could not deliver a better experience.

Basically GOG is cheap. Low prices, low service - that is the hallmark of GOG.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Goodaltgamer: I admit communication could be far better. But that would need a resource again, so back to money, would you pay more for your games to just have a shinier forum?
Breaking promise: GOG exists to make money, right? But they try at least to satisfy us gamers with DRM-free SW, right? So if the budget does not allow it (to big sum for example....)
Lol, it's not about paying more, it's about not paying at all because i fell like gog doesn't care about me. And please, are you telling me that they don't have the money? C'mon, we both know that they have, besides, they're the ones that want to compete with steam (galaxy) and a forum is a big part of it, people actually use the Steam forums (bonus points because they have the developers there to help out).

So yeah, you have to spend money to make money, right? Can't remember which thread (again, another complain, hard to search for threads and no post history) but i do remember new users complaining about some basic features of the forum (ex. deleting their posts).
Abuse: agreed....
But we as a community could also react, speak out against, upvote somebody who didn't deserve it, make a screenshot and report it, don't be a lazy whatever ;) (No insult intended ;) )
Uhm, thing is, that is exactly what some of us have been doing and that's why we're suffering the harassment (not that i care, i get more satisfaction from knowing that i outsmart him and am preventing him from getting freebies but it's time consuming and it gets boring).
Report it? Done. Has something changed? Nope.

Not that it matters, sorry if i get some detail wrong but there's a thread in this forum about someone that has been recieving harassment from another member (including death threats) for 2 years (or around that, can't remember).
No, I must admit I didn't know (email...could you PM me with details? I am just interested....)
No need to be a PM, the person that revealed this information is the same person that is harassing other members of the forum.

Press sign up
Write whatever username you want
Write whatever email that you want, don't create the email, just write whatever goes in your mind, freethepotatoes5574124@gmail.com.
Whatever password that you want.

Voilá, you have a new account and you can start abusing the patience of the people here, obviously you won't recieve any message from gog (purchase receipt for example) and i don't know if gog even sends an email confirming the email before deleting it, still, for a period of time you're "free".
Purchasing: I am not sure if it is GOG or because the servers are located in Cyprus. Because of Greece certain banks, whatever, might have blacklisted them again.
I do believe it's software/server problem since it started recently (with the servers overload and who knows what else), you can have an idea of it here:

https://www.gog.com/forum/general/didnt_get_my_game_i_paid_for
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/trying_to_buy_game
http://www.gog.com/forum/general/gift_game_doesnt_show_in_my_libraryredeem_code_doesnt_work

etc.
Barefoot essentials....how to say it simple???? External SW which does work on top of the GOG-SW....You could compare it a bit too like running a Antivirus SW on top of your Windows. There you could ask the same question: Why? ;) And it would have a far more legit reason there ;)
I'm sorry but you lost me, what do you mean? I do understand that you're saying that it's an external software (script?) running on top of gog web software but what do you mean with "why"? Why would gog adapt it to their own software? Because it's a feature that people want and even if they don't then it doesn't affect them? Besides, people here said that gog team even recommends using BF essentials, so, eh?

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Trilarion: Yes, I did. That's why I don't really understand the question. Why can't you use both and just pick the things you like best? It's not like anyone is restricted to either one or the other.
And why can't i just stay here and ask for something better?
Post edited July 26, 2015 by Cyraxpt
Posted July 26, 2015
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deleted_user:
That was just an example, and as far as trying to link them together, it really doesn't have to be. Hell steam had separate forums from there platform for years, so either they need to get there shit together or take option 2 and let someone else take over the development and they just use it.
I know it was just an example ;)
Yeah, having two different systems wouldn't hurt. You and me are guys with experience, but what about the ahem...normal user? With our new shiny new toys around everywhere people want to get spoon-fed everything: Mo I want to do everything with one click...Why do I have to enter again my CC-number (sorry, couldn't resist ;) )

Outsourcing....such a thing....hmmm...sorry don't think so...Whoever is responsible in the moment would need to get trained for the new SW and that is a major headache....With a big corporation, I would agree, but as GOG is rather small, I don't think so....Budget again....

The biggest Problem for a growing company is making the next step, lets say from a family kind of company to the big one. It needs money, quite a bit of it.....or what we are experiencing a slower growth with some hurdles....;)
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Goodaltgamer: ... Could be legal reason. That would be seen as a subsidizing and might be illegal. ...
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Trilarion: Surely not. GOG is a 100% daugther company of CDPR. They can totally share assets any way they want.

There is only one possible interpretation. They don't give GOG customers the nice forum features because they think that GOG customers are happy with it, not because they could not deliver a better experience.

Basically GOG is cheap. Low prices, low service - that is the hallmark of GOG.
See post 29 and 30.....financial laws...
Post edited July 26, 2015 by Goodaltgamer
Posted July 26, 2015
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Cyraxpt: Lol, it's not about paying more, it's about not paying at all because i fell like gog doesn't care about me. And please, are you telling me that they don't have the money? C'mon, we both know that they have, besides, they're the ones that want to compete with steam (galaxy) and a forum is a big part of it, people actually use the Steam forums (bonus points because they have the developers there to help out).

So yeah, you have to spend money to make money, right? Can't remember which thread (again, another complain, hard to search for threads and no post history) but i do remember new users complaining about some basic features of the forum (ex. deleting their posts).
Yes they are making money, we both know ;)
Steam has one big advantage: Size ;) At the beginning (as I heard, did not participate) they had the same trouble.

New users complaining....hmmm...I had some problems myself, because of bad quotes ;)

And search you could always use your search-engine and use like:

deleted post site:www.gog.com

Works for kind of anything ;)
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Cyraxpt: Uhm, thing is, that is exactly what some of us have been doing and that's why we're suffering the harassment (not that i care, i get more satisfaction from knowing that i outsmart him and am preventing him from getting freebies but it's time consuming and it gets boring).
Report it? Done. Has something changed? Nope.

Not that it matters, sorry if i get some detail wrong but there's a thread in this forum about someone that has been recieving harassment from another member (including death threats) for 2 years (or around that, can't remember).
hmmm to outsmart those idiots is not really hard, i think even a tomato would outsmart them ;)
If it is true, that reporting doesn't help, yes then we might put more pressure behind:

Cyberbulling or better to say death-threats can and shall be reported to the authorities. And yes, there GOG shall report it on be-halve of the user.
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Cyraxpt: No need to be a PM, the person that revealed this information is the same person that is harassing other members of the forum.
OK, this could really be solved easily by sending a token to this email first, so that it will only getting activated via email, agreed!!!!

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Cyraxpt: I do believe it's software/server problem since it started recently (with the servers overload and who knows what else), you can have an idea of it here:
hmmmm...Some of them I read...but again, how to express this.... the front end might have caused the bank-whatever deducting, but after really processing it finds, no blocked, so GOG might not have received the money, hence no game. Why am I saying it: I use paysafe only, never had a problem, as PS is not following the same rules. (They are not obliged too, banks are)

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Cyraxpt: I'm sorry but you lost me, what do you mean? I do understand that you're saying that it's an external software (script?) running on top of gog web software but what do you mean with "why"? Why would gog adapt it to their own software? Because it's a feature that people want and even if they don't then it doesn't affect them? Besides, people here said that gog team even recommends using BF essentials, so, eh?
Same as it is recommended to use other tools on Windows to make it safe or usable (I only say W8.1 and classic menu ;) )
So why is MS not incorporating those?

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Cyraxpt: And why can't i just stay here and ask for something better?
Even as it was not a reply to me: Yes, we can ;)
Posted July 26, 2015
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Goodaltgamer: I know it was just an example ;)
Yeah, having two different systems wouldn't hurt. You and me are guys with experience, but what about the ahem...normal user? With our new shiny new toys around everywhere people want to get spoon-fed everything: Mo I want to do everything with one click...Why do I have to enter again my CC-number (sorry, couldn't resist ;) )

Outsourcing....such a thing....hmmm...sorry don't think so...Whoever is responsible in the moment would need to get trained for the new SW and that is a major headache....With a big corporation, I would agree, but as GOG is rather small, I don't think so....Budget again....

The biggest Problem for a growing company is making the next step, lets say from a family kind of company to the big one. It needs money, quite a bit of it.....or what we are experiencing a slower growth with some hurdles....;)
Well forums software is generally similar, so it shouldn't be to hard for someone to pick up on. I've made and used quite a few different ones. Steam old forums use vBulletin and it doesn't look that expensive, especially for GOG. That don't have to stay up to the current version, hell Steam is using an really old version and sadly it's still better than these. :/

http://forums.steampowered.com/forums/
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionWhy are we being treated like second class citizens?(103 posts)(103 posts)
(103 posts)