.Keys: Sleeping Dogs is not that underrated I think. It just never got a sequel because the studio closed, unfortunately.



I have Oriental Empires in Steam, it's a great game. This one is indeed underrated, probably because of how combat works here. (Turn Based strategy+troop+terrain+morale+happyness of population calculation in encounters).
To be fair, though, the game doesn't explain much of how it works.

People compare it with Shogun Total War, but is nothing like it. The comparison with Civilization is much more acceptable and honest.

Zimerius: But oke honesty

Shogun and oriental empires are fixed on a certain time period in a certain region ;-) Asian. Both are turn based games in which both diplomacy, empire building and war play a major part. Combat in both games can even be seen as a pretty fleshed out game mechanism. civ does not even come close :)

.Keys: Yeah kinda of agree. Diplomacy and Empire building in Oriental Empires is necessary, combat though, imo, not so much. I had playthroughs where I could keep peace through diplomacy while other kingdoms fighted each other.

Oriental Empires looks more of a Civ in the society technology development, that's why I said it's more like Civ than Total War. Total War is RTS (focused in real time combat and strategy), while combat in OE is fully turn based - set your move - see the result - no alterations in combat.

joppo: Batman Arkham series fights are much easier if you use a lot of Evade moves. Basically you just double-tab the spacebar very often and land a hit whenever you see a good opening. As long as you are performing an evade (jumping above an enemy) you can't be attacked, and you don't lose the combo.

That's the basic of mowing down mooks. After you get that pinned down you start incorporating other moves like takedowns, cape stuns and gadget attacks. After I started playing defensively like this I had no problem reaching 130 hits in a single combo — in fact I would usually run out of targets long before I reach that number.

Give it a chance again, because if you manage to get better at it the games are well worth it.

tfishell: warning: long post (feel free to downvote and subsequently hide if it's too long for you)

I have a list of suggestions from previous sales that I never got around to organizing. there are probably a crapload of duplicates below but I offer it up for your perusing for ideas:

Pajama Sam Vol. 1 (better deal than 2)
Pajama Sam Vol. 2

Beneath a Steel Sky (FREE); Far Cry; Rayman 2; Serious Sam First and Second Encounter; Postal 2 (often just $1 on sale; gory content tho); Unreal Gold; Tyrian 2000 (FREE); Rayman 3; Beyond Good And Evil; Little Big Adventure 2; Fallout; Classic Stargunner (FREE); Flight of the Amazon Queen (FREE); System Shock 2; Carmageddon Max Pack; Terraria; Unreal 2; any of the Tomb Raiders (check out fan fixes for Angel of Darkness tho); SiN Gold; Red Faction; Redneck Rampage; Monster Bash; Gex; Medal of Honor Allied Assault; Redline (maybe wait for sale); Clive Barker's Undying; Rune Classic; Shadow Warrior Classic Complete (VERY FUN AND FREE); Realms of Chaos; Zombie Shooter 1 and 2; Carmageddon 2; Raptor Call of the Shadows 2010; World of Goo; FlatOut; Pandemonium; Ultimate Doom; Blood; Quake 1 (and Quake 2, to a lesser extent); Star Wars Jedi Academy; Bio Menace (FUN AND FREE); Return to Castle Wolfenstein; Limbo; Painkiller Black Ed.; Tron 2.0; Torchlight; Crysis; Jazz Jackrabbit 2

Beneath a Steel Sky (FREE)
Far Cry
Rayman 2
Serious Sam First and Second Encounter
Postal 2 (often just $1 on sale; gory content tho)
Unreal Gold
Tyrian 2000 (FREE)
Rayman 3
Beyond Good And Evil
Little Big Adventure 2
Fallout Classic
Stargunner (FREE)
Flight of the Amazon Queen (FREE)
System Shock 2
Carmageddon Max Pack
Terraria
Unreal 2
any of the Tomb Raiders (check out fan fixes for Angel of Darkness tho)
SiN Gold
Red Faction
Redneck Rampage
Monster Bash
Gex
Medal of Honor Allied Assault
Redline (maybe wait for sale)
Clive Barker's Undying
Rune Classic
Shadow Warrior Classic Complete (VERY FUN AND FREE)
Realms of Chaos
Zombie Shooter 1 and 2
Carmageddon 2
Raptor Call of the Shadows 2010
World of Goo
FlatOut
Pandemonium
Ultimate Doom
Blood
Quake 1 (and Quake 2, to a lesser extent)
Star Wars Jedi Academy
Bio Menace (FUN AND FREE)
Return to Castle Wolfenstein
Limbo
Painkiller Black Ed.
Tron 2.0
Torchlight
Crysis
Jazz Jackrabbit 2

postal 2; postal 2 paradise lost; far cry; rayman 2;
serious sam 1st and 2nd encounter; unreal gold; rayman 3; beyond good and evil;
little big adventure 2; fallout 1; system shock 2; terraria; unreal 2;
tomb raider 1-3; sin gold; red faction; redneck rampage; monster bash;
gex; medal of honor aa; redline; rune classic;
shadow warrior classic complete (free); tomb raider 4+5; realms of chaos;
carmageddon 2; raptor call of shadows; world of goo; flatout 1;
pandemonium; ultimate doom; blood; quake 1; jedi academy; bio menace (free); return to castle wolf;
limbo; tron 2.0; torchlight; crysis; tomb raider angel of darkness (get fixes)

Postal 2
Serious Sam 1st and 2nd Encounter
Unreal Gold
Carmageddon Max Pack and 2
any of the Tomb Raider games
Red Faction
Deus Ex
Gex
Medal of Honor: Allied Assault
Clive Barker's Undying
Rune Classic
Zombie Shooter 1-2
Flatout 1-2
Shogo
Pandemonium
Pajama Sam Vol. 1 :)
Ultimate Doom
Quake The Offering
Return to Castle Wolfenstien
Limbo
Painkiller Black Ed
Clive Barker's Undying
Crysis
FEAR Platinum
Jazz Jackrabbit 2

Zimerius: personally i find total war games more in the range of combat focused 4x games then a pure grand strategy game ( and certainly not an RTS even with a inventive explanation behind the letters RTS ) but that is of course person dependent. I might be wrong here but as i remember it combat in oriental empires is actually more wego then turn based. Did you not give all of your units orders and watch the battle unfold until the next stage?

anyways it is one of the games i played not enough, and which the term underrated seems to fit fine with since .. well i ignore the game most of the time too

Age of Wonders : Planetfall is another one of those personal underrated titles :-p

but yea, total war dropped or eased down a lot of their early interpretations of civ building, sadly... i must say

It will probably evolve into this -- meant to stream -- kind of game pretty soon, with sugared hearts and candy coated bloodstains.

Lets call it a tie then, with both sides seem to have enough ground for comparison

fronzelneekburm: ...

JakobFel: Fallout 76 and Cyberpunk 2077. Both games were absolutely unfairly crapped on because they had rough launches and so many still refuse to give either of them a fair shot. Others just hated on it because they're miserable people who can't be satisfied with anything.

Meanwhile, I'm sitting here considering them among my favorite games of all time as both are just downright awesome experiences.

.Keys: Hi, I do respect your opinion as I think people are free to enjoy games that many "hated". Taste is subjective anyways.
But I think that, in Fallout 76' case, what many people disliked was not the game/the idea behind the game itself, but Bethesda's long term behaviour. One can enjoy Fallout 76 easily because, if they enjoyed Fallout 4 gameplay (even if they can clearly admit that story is technically "terrible" compared to previous titles), they will have the same in 76, but online.

I guess people are just tired of companies doing this kind of practice... They still buy and play them, though.
(I'm not saying you support this kind of practice in companies, by your other posts I know you're agaisnt this, and people are just free to enjoy any game.)

What you think?

---

Since this can go to off topic, maybe other games recieved this treatment.
For example, Metal Gear Survive.

As a long time MGS series fan, I can say: This game is terrible as a MGS game.
As someone who see the appeal in this kind of game: Survive looks fun.

Since it's called Metal Gear Survive, I understand the hate. If it was just called "Survive" or something, probably people would enjoy it without the bad taste of what happened before with Kojima + MGSV development.

JakobFel: Frankly, I didn't see anything wrong with Bethesda's behavior back then. I'm not thrilled with their behavior since the wretched Micro$oft acquisition but before that, I didn't see anything wrong with it.

Beerbeer007: "i didn't see anything wrong with Bethesda's behavior back then"

The European Commission antitrust regulators would like a word with you... You do know Valve's Steam among other companies including Zenimax / Bethesda were accused of FRAUD and were found guilty and fined.
in case you don't believe me: €1.6 million fine for fraud.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/01/20/eu-fines-pc-gaming-giant-valve-for-antitrust-practices-on-steam.html

recently in february 2021:
"Bethesda Softworks and its parent firm, ZeniMax Media, are about to face some uncomfortable questions in a class-action lawsuit about how they treated the loyal fans of the 2015 hit game Fallout 4. And that’s an annoying problem, as Microsoft is getting ready to buy Bethesda Softworks in a $7.5 billion acquisition."
https://venturebeat.com/2021/02/23/bethesda-faces-broad-class-action-lawsuit-over-fallout-4-dlc-as-microsoft-takeover-looms/

Additionally, Bethesda nuked Human Head Studios when they were developing PREY 2 (cancelled project) said company was later digested by Bethesda (similar to what EA Games does: Big fish eats small fish). The exact same way they were trying to undermine OBSIDIAN STUDIOS (some were former Fallout 2 Devs), when they were developing FALLOUT: NEW VEGAS (which was proven true).
Then Bethesda kept doing the same practices with other companies a posteriori: https://www.ign.com/articles/bethesda-sued-for-100-million-after-alleged-intentional-sabotage-of-rune-2-to-protect-the-elder-scrolls

In a fourth argument, remember when Bethesda wanted to make you pay for all the mods? Or is this too old of a Historical Nexusmods Scandal among others? https://game-debate.com/news/30313/bethesda-faces-1-billion-class-action-lawsuit-over-fallout-4-creation-club-controversy

People have a short-term memory. But it's not because History isn't cool that it isn't relevant.

JakobFel: Frankly, I didn't see anything wrong with Bethesda's behavior back then.

xSinghx: You didn't see anything wrong with launching a broken product? Or false advertising about collector's editions. Micro-transactions, lootboxes etc?

Maybe the problem isn't "miserable people who can't be satisfied with anything," but zombie fanboys that seem to defend these companies' business practices no matter what state they launch their games in or how greedy, exploitative, and manipulative their business practices are.

As for Cyberpunk I hope it will get to a No Man's Sky point of winning people over with improvements (maybe then my potato of a PC will be upgraded enough to merit the purchase) and be a warning to CDPR not to recklessly launch their games in the future.