No to all.

A visitor simply means that he can perform an action on another person. That target person may or may not know that an action was performed on him (in this case he had dreams so he had some info), but will never know who performed them.

Specifically a visitor will not know if
_ Another person performed an action on the target (1)
_ The target performed an action on him (2)
_ That targer performed an action on someone else (3).

If he knew, that would make him a quite powerful investigative role. For example, if in (3) he saw an empty room that would be the equivalent of a Tracker.

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Feel free to discuss mechanics, but just be careful what information you could be giving scum. When you mentioned the possibility of me being a bomb, you're giving scum this information who might have killed me otherwise. That's why I said don't discuss it.

That's debatable, I can even prove that it's not the case, but who cares. It's not the point.
OK. Maybe Mafia which couldn't kill during first 3 nights?
Maybe...
And a twist...
Since we had only 2 killings for 2 nights, I agree with your options. Seems legit.
Thank you.
Understood, you don't see Zazak as third party because he could have been one with such a playstyle. You still think I can be a neutral (or 3rd party) though, because I was asking questions about neutrals.
Thanks for clatification.
Exactly, I don't, that's the problem.
I'm also sorry about that.
Maybe later, I'm very tired at the moment. Feel free to ignore my questions for now, I'll come back eventually.
But answer me please to only one:
Have had any dreams during Night 1 and/or Night 2?

That's fair and all(I suppose my IRL mentions could be seen as a.t.e.)....but eh, it was the truth of the matter.....i'm just not as into the game as I normally am atm(i.e. too distracted with an overly worried parent who ironically calls everyone else overly worried over this, and slightly busy with a thread on the situation to deal with/monitor).

If you want suspects lists, then here's my lists of town/suspected:

Cadaver-Likely Town

I lean him more town than scum due to his good amount of posts and those vote-player action listing posts awhile back....he also seems to ask a good amount of questions here and there.

Zazak-Likely Town

Hard to puzzle out, but he has posted a good deal....I also feel his play style is more likely just him being him.

Pooka(You)-Maybe Town

The reason for not leaning you more town(atm) is that you seem to be focusing on me even after I listed my IRL......in such games it is normally polite/default to not question IRL as much......though I lean you somewhat town for the same reason(suspecting me).
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As for everyone else.....I don't have anything solid, or(more likely) I did and forgot/forgot to write it down.....might go back and check into the others later(if I don't, someone please remind me).
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Why SPF, if I may ask?
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In case you hadn't noticed, though, some of the games here aren't exactly "standard".
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Good on you to act on your suspicions.
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That said, a note to yourself & all new players: I hardly ever log out.....and also I sleep/do chores/etc around the house for around 12-+ hours a day total(hence why I sometimes don't reply even while "online").

To clear up confusion, I will try to denote when I am leaving the forums each IRL day in a post here.
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Well i'm only at l-2......so not seeing a reason to atm......but if a good number want it i'll do it
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To all: So what do y'all want? Should I claim or not?

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What mistakes, if I may ask?

As for lurking, it is related to the IRL somewhat(also I am usually not the best player at these sorts of games at the best of times).
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No worries on me subbing out...i'm in for the long haul(not much else to do being more locked down at home than normal), even if i'm not as into it atm.
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If you read those bits you quoted you'll note I said I wanted to give him more time to post more....he did and I found it somewhat lacking so I then voted for him.

I also just listed some reads/suspicions in the top of this post(to Pooka).

I'd have to look back to answer this part.

Partially because I don't think zazak is a third party and also because I don't think we have another third party....although yes, I could be wrong.
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Note to all: I have gotten to Post 650.....still need to finish catching up....so if you have anything to re-ask from that post and on please be patient as I will get to those posts in a bit.

The point is the name is not important here. If they can kill Town and their win condition is killing Town we should treat them as scum regardless of what they're called.


But he specifically said this is not the twist.

I can see a mod making a bastard element, especially if he warned there is a twist. Like adding an insane cop or a death miller or a secret lover traitor, or a real honest-to-God jester. But no mod would ever add something he specifically said he wouldn't. If in my games I say there is no cult element then there is no cult element, and I'd never jump and say "Surprise! You've been recruited to a cult. Fooled you." That would be a bastartd squared and not something I'd enjoy playing or hosting.


I was pretty sure I answered already, but can't find it. Looks like I forgot. No dreams.

I explained why. The reasons I wrote from beginning of this Day up till that post. I didn't want to vote straight away before hearing his defense.

That said, at this stage I stopped being willing to switch to GR. I'm less willing to vote Micro too.
I am willing to switch to AFP now on a reread; his vote #3 feels opportunistic.

SPF is still my preferred vote.

(Pertinent part starts at 1:40)
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Ok then.

Btw what do you think of me being asked to claim? Should I claim now or no, in your opinion?
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Also the same question to all(in case someone misses it in my wall of text post above): I am at l-2...should I claim or no...what do y'all want me to do/think I should do?

I... am not sure. You should be the judge of that. My preference is no; don't claim yet. You're not at L-1 and ther aren't enough people willing to vote you. zazak and myself specifically said won't vote you.

Good points....as for why I am asking about claiming at l-2: in part it is because I am often afk/offline at inopportune times, and I might get to l-1 at some point while not browsing the site & not be able to claim when that happens.

But I guess I can just post when I go offline/afk so people know here...that could work.
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Still, I still want to hear everyone else's input/reply to what I asked......so everyone make sure to answer what I asked of ZFR, m'kay? :)

I like this post. It's what I wanted to see more of when I voted you.

There's one small bit though. I assume that everyone else you didn't mention are neutral or scum?

I did a fresh read of the game, and SPF looks even more guilty than I thought before.

- Despite what Pooka and Microfish claim, he has done effectively zero scumhunting. SPF hasn't voiced a strong read on any player the entire game. Even when he voted for me on D2, it was framed as more of a policy lynch. I believe that his constant, meaningless back-and-forth with me is just a carefully constructed form of active lurking.

- On D1 he sat out on both wagons and voted Genocide. On D2 he was actively encouraging a bandwagon on Gogtrial without participating on it (a well known scumtell).

- I still can't believe he would town read Carradice given the way he was playing. Null read maybe, but not town...

- His reaction to Gogtrial being lynched at the beginning of D3 was too nonchalant, almost gleeful. In fact, he has shown barely any confusion or emotion towards any development in the game.

- He questions the wagon on Gamerager (after being directly asked), yet appears content doing nothing to stop it.

Summary: Active lurking, fence sitting, lack of emotion
Conclusion:

Vote SPF

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A few hours pass. Or at least it feels like hours. You have no clue how much time actually passes since all your phones are out of battery by now and none of the outlets seem to work. Even though there is electric light. All the clocks in the hotel show different times and seem to run at different speeds and one even runs backwards. But at least there is a bar that is surprisingly still well stocked. So you sit around a large table, pour yourself a few drinks and continue to discuss whom to throw out today.

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Official Vote Count

SPF 2 - ZFR (622), zazak (670)
GR 3 - micro (603), Pooka (620), AFP (625)

Not voting: SPF, GR, Cadaver
With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch and GR leads at L-2

The Day will end on Tuesday.
If you find any vote-count errors, please tell me so.
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As to the others: Not necessarily neutral or scum.....some I might lean town, once I go back through old posts/get my thoughts together....it's just that my mind's been elsewhere so I forgot to take as many notes as I did in previous games.

And as I use them to recall things I cannot due to memory issues, I would have to manually go back and re-read some things or hope my memory came back re: those individuals in this game.

Speaking of that....one such thought that DID come back: ZFR's whole posting at the beginning of the game(like posts 7 and 11) seems a bit odd to me(I only made a slight mental note of it back then and forgot about it until recently**).....he might have a PR that could be of use to us & be town, or he could be scum and trying to keep himself from being lynched by us....though I lean him more town atm due to his recent posts.

No.

Tomorrow if we don't lynch scum.

His questions have been mostly skeptical, rather than inquisitive. It's an important distinction.

In other words, is the purpose of his questions to find scum, or to gain towncred for fighting against a mislynch?

If you have useful information, then it might be worth claiming.

There's a good chance that you are nightkilled if the wagon against you fails, as scum appear to be targeting low info players.

Just to clarify: next game Day tomorrow.

Hope you get these thoughts jotted down here. That said, I don't like the part regarding ZFR for some reason. It feels as though this sort of info is not useful on Day 3 as it was on Day 1, if it could be even considered useful back then. But since we're discussing it: what do you make of ZFR making it as far as Day 3 even after writing the posts you brought up?