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General discussionThe FCK DRM initiative(760 posts)(760 posts)
(760 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted August 21, 2018
DRM-free approach in games has been at the heart of GOG.COM from day one. We strongly believe that if you buy a game, it should be yours, and you can play it the way it’s convenient for you, and not how others want you to use it.

The landscape has changed since 2008, and today many people don’t realize what DRM even means. And still the DRM issue in games remains – you’re never sure when and why you can be blocked from accessing them. And it’s not only games that are affected, but your favourite books, music, movies and apps as well.

To help understand what DRM means, how it influences your games and other digital media, and what benefits come with DRM-free approach, we’re launching the FCK DRM initiative. The goal is to educate people and ignite a discussion about DRM. To learn more visit https://fckdrm.com, and share your opinions and stories about DRM and how it affects you.
Posted August 22, 2018
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GOG.com: We strongly believe that if you buy a game, it should be yours, and you can play it the way it’s convenient for you, and not how others want you to use it.
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KeeperB5: And yet, there is still no Galaxy client for Linux!

Without the client, I cannot access my savegames I used to sync when on Windows. Nor can I sync my savegames to cloud when I play on Linux. Nor can I automatically receive updates to my GOG games on Linux.

While I greatly appreciate supporting Linux at all, it is greatly limited when all it achieves is manually install games and their updates.

Today, Steam released huge news for all Linux gamers.
https://steamcommunity.com/games/221410#announcements/detail/1696055855739350561

While I certainly would prefer GOG over Steam, it just isn't happening without Galaxy client for Linux. Since core technology behind latest Steam Play advancements on Linux are open-source, I would expect Galaxy client to eventually support them too. Oh wait, there is no Galaxy client for Linux!
Galaxy is a DRM, stop using it.
Posted August 22, 2018
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AngeLusFr: Galaxy is a DRM, stop using it.
You are confused as to what DRM means. Galaxy is not DRM.
Posted August 22, 2018
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AngeLusFr: Galaxy is a DRM, stop using it.
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KeeperB5: You are confused as to what DRM means. Galaxy is not DRM.
Ok, try to play the games that require Galaxy without it then.

You can't.

It's a DRM.
Posted August 22, 2018
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KeeperB5: You are confused as to what DRM means. Galaxy is not DRM.
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AngeLusFr: Ok, try to play the games that require Galaxy without it then.

You can't.

It's a DRM.
Isn't that limited to multiplayer in some games? I am not aware of any GOG games that require Galaxy for singleplayer. And it has more to do with game developers/publishers rather than GOG.

In any case. As I am willing to put up with Steam on Linux and their DRM, I am more than willing to put up with Galaxy on Linux and their DRM (or subjectively lack thereof), but that point is moot since there is no Galaxy for Linux.

Having a client to manage my games and cloud sync for savegames trumps my distaste for DRM. With this new version of Steam Play that was just announced, I am afraid GOG will not get much money from me.
Posted August 22, 2018
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AngeLusFr: Ok, try to play the games that require Galaxy without it then.

You can't.

It's a DRM.
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KeeperB5: Isn't that limited to multiplayer in some games? I am not aware of any GOG games that require Galaxy for singleplayer. And it has more to do with game developers/publishers rather than GOG.

In any case. As I am willing to put up with Steam on Linux and their DRM, I am more than willing to put up with Galaxy on Linux and their DRM (or subjectively lack thereof), but that point is moot since there is no Galaxy for Linux.

Having a client to manage my games and cloud sync for savegames trumps my distaste for DRM. With this new version of Steam Play that was just announced, I am afraid GOG will not get much money from me.
It's limited to only some games (multiplayer online and LAN ! https://www.gog.com/mix/gogs_that_require_galaxy_client_for_multiplayer ).

Some games runs online multiplayer without any DRM (Broforce for exemple)

While some require this shity DRM named GOG Galaxy to even play LAN multiplayer.

GOG Galaxy is a DRM, it's nothing more.

I don't want a useless softwares to play games.

Some people like you want it, and it's ok, but I don't.

It have to stay OPTIONAL, otherwise it's a DRM, and right now it's a DRM. Period.
Post edited August 22, 2018 by AngeLusFr
Posted August 22, 2018
Ignorance. Ignorance everywhere. Half of the posts I read on GOG lately are just made up nonsense.
And before someone starts to scream 2MAH FREEDOM OF OPINION" remember that said opinion has to be informed.
Facts are not opinable, so before saying anything (especially about what is nd what is not DRM) please verify if you are being correct.
Posted August 22, 2018
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EvilMonster: BYE
DRM

How about this?
This is MUCH BETTER.

It need to be family friendly to spread.
Post edited August 22, 2018 by AngeLusFr
Posted August 22, 2018
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jorlin: Good initiative. Such pity though that most multiplayer games for multiplayer don't offer to download the server program, whether for LAN or WAN gaming. I would really love to see that tide turn.
You could say that it makes no sense for game developers to invent the wheel over and over again to provide the basics of a TCP/ UDP based connection between players with some user interfaces.
You might argue that GOG Galaxy will provide that service at the WAN level and that developers merely have to support the protocol in order for this to work.
GOG Galaxy is not a real alternative for me at the moment since the used protocol and source code are not open and thus bound to the uptime and lifetime of the GOG Galaxy servers. Should GOG ever fail, all multiplayer games that are dependent on Galaxy will loose that feature. Some games will even become useless, because multiplayer is all they offer as gameplay mode.

Another disadvantage is that Galaxy currently only runs on MacOSX and Windows
MacOSX is firmly tied to the hardware of Apple and I refuse to be a part of the cult that praises that company.
Windows is an OS family that is crippled with DRM and in the case of Windows 10 (consumer versions) with malware and adware by design.
GOG please complete your port of Galaxy to Linux (flatpak installer preferred) before the EOL of Windows 7 and release the source code, so it can become a true standard.
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MIK0: I agree. The multiplayer part of Galaxy should be open and usable by customers without the needs of galaxy or a server behind it (it should be configurable). That way it could also be used in other version of the game and allow crossplay. If a game rely on Galaxy for the multiplayer part it has the same limitation of having drm.
This here is pretty much my stance on the matter.

ANY DRM is poor form. It doesn't matter if it only affects part of the software/music/video/whatever or all of it - some DRM is still bad. Multiplayer is still part of the game, and if it requires an external server or service *other than for matchmaking purposes* than it is effectively DRM in the most basic sense.

For example, my brother and I tried to play Arakami the other day. Emphasis on "tried to". I use Galaxy, he doesn't (that's his choice, and "just use it" is not a solution). This meant we couldn't, because someone who wasn't us decided that he wasn't allowed to search for me on the LAN or even direct IP connect to my machine. Someone else making the decision is what DRM is all about. I'm taken to believe there are other similarly-affected titles on GoG masquerading under the "DRM-free" tag as well (Shadow Warrior 2 springs to mind), since this means multiplayer in general can be revoked remotely at any time for any reason.

*ed: I also appreciate the irony that Flying Wild Hog (the creators of Shadow Warrior 2) are quoted on that website as being anti-DRM, yet they're one of the hold-outs still enforcing it in part. Especially given the "Access offline" check in the table underneath, since the multiplayer clearly cannot be.
Post edited August 22, 2018 by Asterchades
Posted August 22, 2018
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muntdefems: Please, tell us how many of your 141 GOG games you've paid for and how "hipster" and "rebel" you feel for doing so.
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Kanashe: Actually a good portion I got of them because I already owned 'em on steam. An feeling hipster or rebellious? Nah, I'm just not hailing GoG as some sort of holy grain and giving 'em a constant circle jerk.
Ah, I see it now. This actually explains everything.

I was wondering if you are just a troll having fun pissing off others. But this actually explains it. You use GOG like everyone else. But of all the people here, it's you who's different. *You* are not just a rebel and hipster like everyone else.

Now I understand, Kanashe. It's OK. Everyone want to feel like he's different. Like he's a rebel.
Posted August 22, 2018
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EvilMonster: BYE
DRM

How about this?
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AngeLusFr: This is MUCH BETTER.

It need to be family friendly to spread.
Fucking is family-friendly because there'd be no families without fucking. Besides, "BYE DRM" sounds too much like "BUY DRM".
Post edited August 22, 2018 by DoomSooth
Posted August 22, 2018
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AngeLusFr: This is MUCH BETTER.

It need to be family friendly to spread.
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DoomSooth: Fucking is family-friendly because there'd be no families without fucking. Besides, "BYE DRM" sounds too much like "BUY DRM".
The word "fuck" is not family friendly

About the fact that Bye DRM sound like Buy DRM, I think it's a good thing

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MIK0: I agree. The multiplayer part of Galaxy should be open and usable by customers without the needs of galaxy or a server behind it (it should be configurable). That way it could also be used in other version of the game and allow crossplay. If a game rely on Galaxy for the multiplayer part it has the same limitation of having drm.
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Asterchades: This here is pretty much my stance on the matter.

ANY DRM is poor form. It doesn't matter if it only affects part of the software/music/video/whatever or all of it - some DRM is still bad. Multiplayer is still part of the game, and if it requires an external server or service *other than for matchmaking purposes* than it is effectively DRM in the most basic sense.

For example, my brother and I tried to play Arakami the other day. Emphasis on "tried to". I use Galaxy, he doesn't (that's his choice, and "just use it" is not a solution). This meant we couldn't, because someone who wasn't us decided that he wasn't allowed to search for me on the LAN or even direct IP connect to my machine. Someone else making the decision is what DRM is all about. I'm taken to believe there are other similarly-affected titles on GoG masquerading under the "DRM-free" tag as well (Shadow Warrior 2 springs to mind), since this means multiplayer in general can be revoked remotely at any time for any reason.

*ed: I also appreciate the irony that Flying Wild Hog (the creators of Shadow Warrior 2) are quoted on that website as being anti-DRM, yet they're one of the hold-outs still enforcing it in part. Especially given the "Access offline" check in the table underneath, since the multiplayer clearly cannot be.
>ANY DRM is poor form. It doesn't matter if it only affects part of the software/music/video/whatever or all of it - some DRM is still bad. Multiplayer is still part of the game, and if it requires an external server or service *other than for matchmaking purposes* than it is effectively DRM in the most basic sense.

Exactly.
Post edited August 22, 2018 by AngeLusFr
Posted August 22, 2018
low rated
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GOG.com: DRM-free approach in games has been at the heart of GOG.COM from day one. We strongly believe that if you buy a game, it should be yours, and you can play it the way it’s convenient for you, and not how others want you to use it.

The landscape has changed since 2008, and today many people don’t realize what DRM even means. And still the DRM issue in games remains – you’re never sure when and why you can be blocked from accessing them. And it’s not only games that are affected, but your favourite books, music, movies and apps as well.

To help understand what DRM means, how it influences your games and other digital media, and what benefits come with DRM-free approach, we’re launching the FCK DRM initiative. The goal is to educate people and ignite a discussion about DRM. To learn more visit https://fckdrm.com, and share your opinions and stories about DRM and how it affects you.
DRM is not always bad...
how about the fact that DRM helps protect my Intellectual property from thieves.
1. In most cases, after you buy digital media, you don’t actually own anything. All you’re doing is licensing the right to use or access digital content in certain ways, on certain devices. The content itself still belongs to the company leasing it to you. They can take it away at any time, edit it, and do whatever else they want to it. What you’re paying for is like streaming subscription to that content, but it’s not ownership.

Digital Rights Management (DRM) worksby physically locking down content, so that only certain people (who have bought a lease to it) and certain technology (that works with that particular content) can unlock it. Each company has its own set of rules and regulations about how a lease works, and its own exclusive technology. When a lease expires it becomes impossible to access the content. It’s in a kind of impenetrable bank vault; the treasure is in there, but no one can get to it.


You guys Should Work to eliminate "GAMES As A Service "or "Digital products as a Service" thingy... that way you can actually own a copy of game/software insted of owning/leaseing a licence
as stated in almost all EULA's these days

this is a Better suited MiddleGround between what devs & consumers want
NO DRM is Never going to be te answer
Posted August 22, 2018
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GOG.com: DRM-free approach in games has been at the heart of GOG.COM from day one. We strongly believe that if you buy a game, it should be yours, and you can play it the way it’s convenient for you, and not how others want you to use it.

The landscape has changed since 2008, and today many people don’t realize what DRM even means. And still the DRM issue in games remains – you’re never sure when and why you can be blocked from accessing them. And it’s not only games that are affected, but your favourite books, music, movies and apps as well.

To help understand what DRM means, how it influences your games and other digital media, and what benefits come with DRM-free approach, we’re launching the FCK DRM initiative. The goal is to educate people and ignite a discussion about DRM. To learn more visit https://fckdrm.com, and share your opinions and stories about DRM and how it affects you.
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mishant: DRM is not always bad...
how about the fact that DRM helps protect my Intellectual property from thieves.
1. In most cases, after you buy digital media, you don’t actually own anything. All you’re doing is licensing the right to use or access digital content in certain ways, on certain devices. The content itself still belongs to the company leasing it to you. They can take it away at any time, edit it, and do whatever else they want to it. What you’re paying for is like streaming subscription to that content, but it’s not ownership.

Digital Rights Management (DRM) worksby physically locking down content, so that only certain people (who have bought a lease to it) and certain technology (that works with that particular content) can unlock it. Each company has its own set of rules and regulations about how a lease works, and its own exclusive technology. When a lease expires it becomes impossible to access the content. It’s in a kind of impenetrable bank vault; the treasure is in there, but no one can get to it.

You guys Should Work to eliminate "GAMES As A Service "or "Digital products as a Service" thingy... that way you can actually own a copy of game/software insted of owning/leaseing a licence
as stated in almost all EULA's these days

this is a Better suited MiddleGround between what devs & consumers want
NO DRM is Never going to be te answer
>how about the fact that DRM helps protect my Intellectual property from thieves.

It doesn't.

>1. In most cases, after you buy digital media, you don’t actually own anything. All you’re doing is licensing the right to use or access digital content in certain ways, on certain devices. The content itself still belongs to the company leasing it to you. They can take it away at any time, edit it, and do whatever else they want to it. What you’re paying for is like streaming subscription to that content, but it’s not ownership.

No DRM is too avoid that
Posted August 22, 2018
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mishant: 1. In most cases, after you buy digital media, you don’t actually own anything. All you’re doing is licensing the right to use or access digital content in certain ways, on certain devices. The content itself still belongs to the company leasing it to you. They can take it away at any time, edit it, and do whatever else they want to it. What you’re paying for is like streaming subscription to that content, but it’s not ownership.
These "because it's a license that means you own nothing" assumptions that get endlessly repeated are all incorrect. They might be true of some other "subscriber" services, but GOG's User Agreement openly states you own your local copy (even if GOG went out of business) and neither GOG nor games publishers can "take it away at any time" for people who've already bought it, for any reason other than serious abuse. See this post detailing exactly what part of the UA says this.
Post edited August 22, 2018 by AB2012
Posted August 22, 2018
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mishant:
An IP thief is one who plagiarizes, who takes someone else's content and passes it as their own. DRM doesn't protect against that.
What you say after that describes exactly why DRM is wrong. And also why the current copyright system is wrong.
So yes, that digital products as a service thing needs to go, but in that case how can you say that something that, among other things, enforces it is "not always bad"?
So, quite the opposite, DRM is never going to be the answer.
Post edited August 22, 2018 by Cavalary
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionThe FCK DRM initiative(760 posts)(760 posts)
(760 posts)