Infinite diversity in infinite combinations, y'all :)

I'd rate the show as a "meh". I don't really care if they break timeline and other details, I just want them to break free from the pablum we've been fed since DS9.

The first of the new movies was freakin' fantastic. They got the inter-personal relations mix right with the command staff, many points were very serious and tense while others had me laughing my buns off. The second movie was "meh" for me due to the story which I found stupid (come on, what military would put ALL senior staff in one room?).

The new series is at least not the Fisher Price/bubblegum show that STE was (I really like Bakula but NOT as a starfleet captain) so I have some hope but they HAVE to fire the writers because most of the plot just made NO sense. The #2 was so un-impressive, un-vulcan, and un-wise that I can't even remember the character name. Its like they promoted an unstable 13 year old human to the position.

Well, most series take at least a season to find their stride (TNG was horrible in the first season, DS9 just stayed horrible - except for the Ferengi!). If it stays CBS online then nobody will ever see it anyway so does the show even matter?

yeah the borg were kind of domesticated in the later bits of Voyger, which was pretty stupid. I don't think Species8472 was bad at all. I really like that as a concept. The way they handled it was bad. Voyager should have been made to look like an ant caught between two equally terrifying giants. Getting through on wits and some luck. The borg were largely watered down.

Anyway the ending of Voyager pretty much sucked all around. Don't think anyone liked it. The sad thing is they had the perfect setup to have an absolutely awesome ending and didn't take advantage of it. That being the Klingon ghost ship. They could have easily parlayed that into a nice mix of one part destiny, one part surprise reveal centred around the cloaking device, one part heroic Klingon ass kicking ala First Contact.

I keep imagining this finale whereby the Klingon ship comes to the rescue and together them and Voyager do some thing that sends 8472 against the Borg and the resulting calamity opens up a permanent wormhole to the Deltra quadrant. Voyger gets home, and the Klingon ship's promised land turns out to be the Delta quadrant.

Oh, I didn't mean Scorpion at all. I thought that was one of the best episodes of Voyager. Great, tense stuff all round. No, it was later, as they kept using Borg and brought the Queen along. At least First Contact kept her sort of ambiguous (individual/manifestation of the hive) but Voyager just used her too much, they used the Borg too much in general and it made them look weaker and weaker. Unimatrix Zero was when it all fell apart for me. Suddenly being assimilated by the Borg was no longer the horror it should be - you could still retain your individuality in a Matrix holiday resort. Total bullshit. Three years of Seven working hard to regain her humanity, and now you're telling me she had functioned as an individual for all the time she was with the Borg but then just forgot about it?

I have watched various episodes from various star trek series over the years. I enjoyed them for what they are worth.But im not a hardcore trekkie.I dont know much about the lore etc.
Just saw the first two episodes of Discovery. Looks decent. Story looks decent. Acting decent.
Now my big question is --- why do big fans go up in arms and say this new one will fail?. Why have the more recent attempts failed?.

TNG had these amazing characters and DS9 had great writing, and also some amazing characters. The series that came after, Voyager and Enterprise, were light on both to varying degrees.

It was dumb but I'll say one thing for it. If the borg do have these sort of "tier 2" borgs that retain some kind of autonomy, maybe that's the reason why some can come back. the two major borg we saw return were seven and picard and both of those were special borg. now I realize Voyager had the whole borg family of kids which kind of throws a wrench in it, but, if memory serves, they were separated from the collective or something? even without that, just retconning those guys, it can start to make a kind of sense when framed that way.

still doesn't fix that they largely diluted the gravity the borg had. also, I'm kinda pissed we never got to see this on the show.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6Bty8op_JcE#t=29s

the second one is a mod. I'd never seen it before that video. talk about something to crap your pants over.

Utterly disappointed in every way.

Wooden acting, terribly shot, no real story....

Klingons redesigned for no good reason, and a new cowardly alien race added which is there just to screw with any sense of continuity. The handling of the alien races was frankly terrible.

The cast is about as regressive SJW rainbow as they could get it. Now Star Trek has always had a diverse cast, but it just felt like they where beating you over the head with it here. Did they get a special diversity grant or something to make this show. You know the first episode actually fails the REVERSE Bechdel test. Progressive media is supposed to push for equality, not go so far you have inequality in the opposite direction. The fact is the only depiction of masculinity in the show are the Klingons and they're cartoon villains now.

Then there's the way they have the sci-fi elements and cinematography. It felt more like Star Wars than Star Trek. All this desperate need to try and be "cool" and even sarcastic at everything. There was no sense that the cast where actually Star Fleet officers, no sense of restraint or discipline, and no sense of genuine wonderment at the great unknown, at the idea of scientific discovery; there was no passion...

This isn't Star Trek. It's crap TV that's daring to wear the skin on an old friend. Not terrible enough to be universally hated, not bad enough to be fun to tear apart. Just painfully average, bland, and banal. The worst crime possible for media in my books.

Oh and thing thing I really hated about the show - Klingons! I mean come on, they look like someone screwed up the mould at the gummy bear factory and the speaking is so bloody slow and slurred I switched to another channel to watch a commercial for some entertainment.

There is no "reverse" Bechdel-Wallace test because [long rant about power, privilege, perceived norms, the inversion of sterotypes, the reason for and limits of the Bechdel-Wallace test]. And, yes, social justice is at the very core of the Star Trek narrative. We're taking all the grants in that respect, thank you very much. It's literally Social Justice the Sci-Fi series, and always has been. If it's too heavy handed for you in Discovery, you should not ever watch any previous Star Trek series. It's not even show don't tell in there. The patronizing never stops.

As to the missing sense of wonder at the unknown: There was genuinely more of that in the first Discovery episode than in a dung heap of other Star Trek episodes and pilots in particular. We literally begin that new journey with Burnham on the bridge praising natural phenomena, and I find it difficult to point at another Star Trek episode that dedicates two slow paced minutes and an orchestral score to the startup sequence into wide open space and a twin star system. God I hope they continue doing that. Again: I'm not all peachy with those first two Discovery episodes, the second one in particular. But there were some great scenes in there, period.

I have seen this argument several times, here and in other sites, but I don't understand it. Is it because the two leads in the pilot were non-white women? (Please correct me if this is not your case.) I didn't realized that until a couple days after watching it, while talking with another person. For me, there were just two interesting characters (my subjective opinion). I mean, not a single character made a remark about their race or gender, or anything that could be remotely attributed to a hidden agenda. Star Trek is set in a bright future where those distinctions don't matter anymore (at least in theory - I would love to see an episode where we see Federation citizens who disagree with the Federation ideals. Their society shouldn't be as monolythic as shown during the previous shows).

Just like I never thought TNG was racist/sexist because the two leads were white men.

Maybe it was. lol

I'm sorry, but this is so blatantly false I'm amazed you could even right it without bursting into flames. The other pilots were all about encountering something new, special, strange and alien. Two minutes of nice CGI space is hardly up to that standard for me. This episode is all about encountering fighting, fighting, and more fighting, without even any well written characters- heroes or villains - or interesting sci-fi concepts.

No need to make yourself combustible.

The Discovery pilot marvels at natural phenomena that seem mundane in comparison to other pilots we've seen. I can't see that as inherently wrong.

The threat that Star Fleet discovers is, also easily conceded, much more down to earth and relatable than, say, a literal god for an enemy (Q) or perceived adversary (Caretaker). The way the Klingons are written is indeed interesting, because they mirror our own cultural identity crisis. That, also, could be perceived as mundane, but not without conceding that this kind of writing is oh so very Trek (Cardrussians, anyone?).

As I said, I didn't like how the pilot went the cinematic route, which included a buttload of fighting scenes and especially the finale, very much in the vein of most Star Trek movies especially including the TNG ones. But, yeah, it's a different form of exposition, a different (and unprecedented) kind of setup for the series, and your kind of pilot episode may be yet to come. We're both wishing for one.

It's because of how ham-fisted they make it. Previous Trek had controversial casting for it's time. TNG had a bald man as the lead at a time when the establishment felt that would turn people away. Voyager managed to be one of the best feminist shows of it's time (before third wave feminism ruined what feminism is and turned it into pathetic snowflake man-hate the movement). Janeway was a well written complex female character. She was strong, intelligent, and powerful; but she was also arrogant, distant, prideful, and so much more... she had flaws, she was a character.

The characters in this, due to poor writing, feel like Mary Sues. The very first thing we see is the two female leads acting like smart alecks, repeatedly praising each other and saying why they're awesome, as well as info-dumping their history for the audience in a conversation no two people would actually have. The Starfleet logo in footprints was just cringe-worthy, and stupid; as anyone who could see that, could have seen them anyway.

The reason this is regressive bullshit is TV isn't made in a vacuum. The characters themselves aren't necessarily terrible, but knowing the political landscape of California and the US media, when you see an Asian woman, a Black woman, and a submissive and cowardly alien as the only male influence; it sends a message. When the only example of masculinity in the show are the Klingon who have been redesigned to look like cartoon villains; the message in further reinforced. When you then announce over social media that the only white male main cast member is also going to be Treks first gay character; the message may as well be in Neon fucking lights! This isn't about characters it's about virtue signalling. It's the directors desperately crow-barring as many minorities in the show as possible and it doesn't feel natural, it feels forced, it feels glaringly obvious, and it makes the show look fake and tacky...

...the worst part is, it doesn't need to be like this.

Dark Matter is one of the best sci-fi shows of recent times, and the fuckers cancelled it despite it's popularity. It's cast is multi-ethnic, and it includes multiple gay characters too. The main lead as well as more than half of the established cast are women, including ship captains, corporate CEOs, and well trained combatants. This show has one of the most diverse casts but because it's well written and feels natural; it's accepted by the audience. It doesn't feel like being black, or being gay, was written next to a characters name under, "character concept". That's why Star Trek: Discovery feels like regressive SJW fodder; because they care more about appeasing the idiots who scream about being oppressed rather than actually writing good TV.

Because their race and gender weren't a character point. They were incidental and unimportant.

Oh wait.