You know, Nicholas Meyer being involved makes sense, he's ruined the franchise before.

That's a joke, but the basis is why I'm a little hesitant about arguments of "it doesn't feel like Star Trek." Back in high school, I discovered that my school library had these books, apparently Paramount would publish articles from fanzines? The internet really changed things, but I digress. One of the books was full of articles about Wrath of Khan. And all the writers of the articles fucking hated it. It was too dark, it didn't understand the show... And it all boiled down to, "it doesn't feel like Star Trek," and you know what?

They're right. Wrath of Khan is nothing like Star Trek, or at least the Star Trek that was. Of course, now its been vindicated, Wrath of Khan showed us that Star Trek wasn't just bright lights, utopia, and the wonder of exploration. TNG touched on that, DS9 delved into it and every series since it has felt its reach. Star Trek doesn't have a feel, it has several, it's a wide, wide universe and you can do all sorts of things with the setting and still be true, it's an entirely personal thing which style you prefer.

This isn't really a criticism of people's complaints about Discovery, or the Abrams movies because, well, I'm sure it's true to them, they don't feel like their Star Trek, but it's something that's been nagging at me for a bit.

Maybe every ST show/movie had it's own feel but none of them containded the level of stupidity and awfull writing as in Discovery. I'm done with Discovery after the previous terrible episode i'm DONE giving it a chance. This simply isn't Star Trek and is written by a bunch of simpletons or the kindergarten. Seriously these plots are an insult to Gene Roddenberry and what he envisioned.

I gave it a while to consider what you're saying, cause you make a good point. But here's the thing. Or rather two things.

First - "it doesn't feel like Star Trek" is not the shows only, not even it's biggest problem. As explained by me and others, there's plenty of much more serious issues. It's one thing to embrace something good but different as a new facet of an established franchise, but when it feel entirely different and offers nothing of value, just plain sucks... then yeah, it get's rejected.

Second- I myself used the "Star Trek can be many things" argument when talking about the new movies. But whether it's the new movies or Wrath of Khan, there are still many elements of what I consider essential to Trek present. Most of all, the characters. Discovery, for whatever reason, is fixated on being a one-woman show, with everyone else being little more than background. In Trek everything was always a team effort. You'd have episodes focusing on single characters of course, but in general there was always a team, working together, in a spirit of comraderie. No movie or series was ever a one man show. Here we have only Burnham, and a lot of annoying, expendable people, and a captain pretty much destined to be the villain.

DS9 I think makes the shortcomings of Discovery even more obvious. DS9 only delved into it's darker, serialised story arc after it established it's charaters and world and it's place within the known Star Trek universe. Yes, it eventually got darker than any Trek before or after, but still honored what came before and made itself an organic part of that universe. Discovery on the other hand rejects anything that would feel familiar, rejects any sort of canon or even any familiar aesthetics, and jumps right into a serialised story arc without any connection to the Trek universe other than some hamfisted names.

EDIT: Oh, and when I complain about Discovery being dark I don't just mean the mood. I mean also the fact it's so poorly lit. It's so dark and badly shot, I still can't tell what the bridge of either Shenzhou or Discovery actually looks like.

Reminds me of the first Trek Abrams movie where the Romulan captain waits at the wormhole for decades, and none of his crew have a problem with this.

The thing I noticed most this episode is that Michael doesn't blink (and now that I've pointed it out, you'll never be able to concentrate on anything else for the rest of the season). The average person blinks roughly 15-20 times per minute, whereas Michael blinks only a few times, and even then it's usually a deliberate expressive blink to convey a feeling rather than a natural reflexive blink. She looks like she's about to murder somebody at the drop of a hat.

At least that was the result of a poor choice made in the cutting room, not the script - they were actually in a Klingon prison for most of that time, as seen in the deleted scenes and elaborated on in the comic Nero. Here it's obviously intentionally written that way.

the turn off your brain was so bad in that episode. so much of it is so stupid. it's getting to alternative action movie level stupid. when Captain Darkside's ship plant-warps into the Klingon attack, they immediately kill two ships like it's nothing. then spend the next couple minutes dramatically taking fire to perform this elaborate switcharoo when they could have just fucking killed them all in one shot in half the time. but Captain Bluesuede got to hold his hands up like a rockstar so there's that.

Oh, I'm not arguing against those issues, I agree that those are entirely, 100% valid complaints, I was just noting something that's been bothering me, since I've seen it used for a while now. All fair points, though I feel like the idea of focusing on a single person within the universe and how they interact within the confines of the Federation is not a bad idea, though it sounds as if it's not done well. I'd assume that this is a holdover from when it was supposed to be an anthology show and only had one season to do the kind of character development they wanted. Remember, Discovery's development was... rocky. Honestly, I was never really a big fan of DS9, I only vaguely remember a bit of stuff relating to the Dominion War, but I have this feeling that DS9 is responsible for many of the issues that plague recent Trek series, and that's the idea of the serialised story. One of the most common things I'd see when people were talking about what they wanted from a new Star Trek was "be more like DS9." They weren't talking the build-up, they were talking a story that would shake the foundations of the setting. So of course Enterprise, which I largely liked, I must say, tried a serialised story, and it hampered it (knock it the fuck off with all the time travel shit, guys). And then one of the other complaints about Enterprise was "it's too familiar" because, well, it's pretty devoted to TOS and the previous shows, even when it probably didn't need to be. There's definitely something to be said for it not being the most original series, but I'm not surprised that the takeaway was "serialised story and something new and unfamiliar." Producers tend to be idiots. Just before it premiered they straight up said "it looks like it breaks canon, we know, but please stick with it," so I fully expect them to try and bring it back around, possibly (likely) in a hilariously stupid way. Well, that's what happens when you use Caitian engineers. :v

Roddenberry's vision was utopic to a degree that absolutely hurt storytelling, DS9's Dominion War story with its moral ambiguity and shades of grey is absolutely an insult to what he envisioned and I suspect would never, ever have happened had he been alive. In fact, Conspiracy, that TNG episode, was originally supposed to deal with a military coup within Starfleet, but he nixed the idea because that's not what he envisioned could ever possibly happen. I'm not saying you should stick with the show, and I'm not defending the writing (again, CBS All Access), if you just hate watching it don't keep watching it, I'm just saying that what Roddenberry envisioned was dropped long ago.

To be fair, this is actually a thing. I blink so rarely that I can't wear contacts, I have to wear glasses. Blinking cleans and moisturizes your eyes, so I get large protein buildup on the contact's surface because they aren't getting wiped often enough. Further, actors are often trained to blink less because blinking can actually be distracting for viewers. It's particularly noticeable for news anchors. If, like me, she's predisposed to not blinking, that training will only make it worse.

I'm not actually defending her, though; I've not been at all impressed by her performance. I'm just pointing out that not blinking is actually a lot more common than you realize, especially on screen.

she's doing it to try to appear focused and intelligent. part of her vulcan character she's playing. I never even noticed it until you mentioned it, but now I realize that yeah she rarely blinks. I might actually always notice it now.

That's interesting to know. Though I might not have noticed Michael's lack of blinking if she didn't have a roommate with a nervous disposition who blinks non-stop. That kinda draws attention to it.

Well I hate to say it, but I'm also quickly losing any interest in the show. The pilot was far from perfect and definitely not authentic to TOS, but despite that I liked it more than anything from the franchise in a long time. However the path they're following only two episodes later is really irritating me.

For someone who doesn't want to cause any trouble, she sure likes to go places and do things she shouldn't. The rest of the crew is very unlike Starfleet, most of them so far seem to be pointless characters just to have an actual crew on the screen, and the captain is quickly going from interestingly different and 'strong' (for lack of a better description at the moment) to a reckless warlord. I agree that Trek has always been about a team and teamwork at the core, while Discovery is focused almost solely on her, who is a miserable sulking person giving no reason at all to care about her. Why should I keep watching this show?!

Then, in the newest episode, the Klingons made me cringe. What they said they did with the pilot episodes' captain was just despicable (and insults all the other variations of Klingons in the franchise), and the obvious budding romance between two of them... creepy and blech!

I'm uncertain if I'll even try watching the next episode since there's a high chance of it being no better or even worse than the previous, compared to a low chance of it actually improving. Finally a show that isn't full of mature content and excessive violence, but instead they find other ways to ruin it.

It probably won't come as a surprise that I did like episode 4. For me the positive outweights the negative, and this show brings what I love in a scifi show. I love the ethical dilemmas and hard questions that have been raised, and I do like the new characters, particularly Captain Lorca. I see why people can be disappointed because it doesn't really feel like previous Trek shows, but I don't particularly mind that - I am glad we are finally seeing the true face of war and the darker side of the Federation.

Also, Tory's dead. Yay.

Tell me please, what ethical dilemmas and hard questions have been raised in episode 4? Because I haven't noticed any.

Also this episode seemes to been written by kids from elementary school. Connection between Ripper and shroom-drive was obvious even in episode 3. I mean they were on the same ship, so any viable scientist should have checked the connection from start.

The question of whether it is ethical to use scientific research to develop weapons or just in warfare. Of course in this universe you need to do it to survive, but I am glad that some characters at least question it.

We will probably also see more on the ethics of causing pain (some would say torture!) to Ripper in order to power the spore drive.

Normally I wouldn't complain about lighting of all things, but during enterprise not having decent lighting for a spaceship might of been a thing as it wasn't suppose to be so far removed from modern tech.
Discovery however should of been brought into line with human OH&S standards for lighting making it actually a breach of cannon.
This isn't a one off rushed build they have a veritable fleet manufactured in various revisions evidence during the battle.
The only explanation is their gravitational problems, but if the magnetic interference from led lighting was going to stuff them up there would be no unauthorized electronics onboard and everything would be heavily shielded so it's an immersion breaking breech.

I personally don't like how they are making out that the klingons are merely religious nutters when further along it's apparent that their council are more legally concerned strategists than firebrand preachers; plus so far it's like the klingons don't have any history.
Where are their opera's?
It's as if they are a 2 dimensional war joke, that just suddenly with the irrationality of religion miraculously tripped over camo-tech.
Segway battle, cause hulk angry when no smash makes hulk smash.

I think the direction of star trek as a whole is moving more towards boat sinking action when it never really has singly revolved around it as a premise.
Granted we are talking about a period when the Klingon's were at war, but it's going to be a pathetic series if it's all space battles every episode and not about the strength and adaptability a unity of species represents.

Oh and what about death sense prey guy with his heckles about the main character (I can't even remember crew names the show is that memorable). I mean if they are up cause she's dangerous the humans of that era wouldn't be so removed from it themselves seeing as there is cannon about human super soldiers and a less refined time presumably recent as coming after the invention of warp travel yet not evidenced at the end of the Klingon war in later (earlier produced) treks.
Just smacks of inconsistency like creating an affective empath race and only inflicting their emotion ability on every other hostile alien race they encounter when it seems necessary to make conflict, as if team members wouldn't cotton onto their 'off days' and tell them to go take some happy pills.

If you want half decent Sci Fi try Orville; that's where it's at, at the moment; even if it tries too hard to be funny and 'every day people in space'.