I know, and you've already given the reason I didn't even mention it :D I think it's actually a pretty great episode (as was most of season 4), but that poor Gorn does not hold up well. Except for the sluggish movement the original costume might actually be holding up better. Not to mention going full CG would probably not work great for series main antagonists. But with the kind of money Discovery sank into making Klingons look like space orks (and not the fun kind) flying in repurposed gothic cathedrals I'm pretty sure it would be possible to come up with decent looking practical effects Gorn.

True, but I remember in a TNG episode Worf and other Klingons howled when a warrior died to warn the afterlife his soul was on the way. Worf then told the doctor the body was an empty husk. I doubt their culture would switch from one approach to the other in the relatively short time between STD and TNG.

That's kinda the problem with trying to do a Star Trek series set prior to events of the the ones like TOS, TNG, etc. There is so much lore that has been established it is hard not to violate something canon. ENT did a good job trying, but the people running Discovery don't seem to care that much.

Was every ship in Discovery doing that though? It seemed to me that the main klingon group there was more of a hardcore 'back to our old ways' type so I wouldn't find it surprising for someone like that to be doing something that the rest of society isn't necessarily doing anymore.

It's possible. Makes about as much sense as anything else presented in Discovery. I'll stick with the Star Trek games I have instead :)

I liked it a lot. The production values are great, what the franchise deserves in the 21st century. Some interesting topics and ideas have already been brought up, like the Klingons as xenophobics nationalistics or the Federation as an imperialistic force which crushes other species' individuality (not that I agree with the latter, but this idea appeared briefly in DS9 and I am glad the Federation ways will at least be questioned). Or the debate about whether they should betray their ideals and attack first, if that could avert the war.

But most important of all, it was fun to watch. It was very distinct from other shows, but still felt like Star Trek, and that's a good thing. The space battles were stunning (and expected for a pilot... Slower-paced episodes are sure to come in next weeks). There were memorable scenes; my favorite was Michael convincing the computer to let her out of the brig for ethical reasons (can you get more Star Trek than that?).

And I definitely love that characters can't just ignore the consequence of their actions anymore. Sending just the two highest rank officers to a very dangerous mission in the Klingon ship was not a very smart move (although the crews in Star Trek have always done that). Only now there are consequences and the Captain died. Michelle Yeoh was terrific and I wish she had stayed longer... But as soon as I saw she was billed as "special guest star" I knew she wouldn't survive the pilot. :'( Also, Michael broke Startfleet rules and didn't avoid her court-martial using the power of friendship, which is was I was expecting to happen. That surprised me for the better. Now she needs to start from scratch, and I can't wait to see what the future holds for her, Starfleet, the Federation and all this universe.

I'm just gonna be blund :) After reading everything you wrote, and you have a right to your opinion, you probably never liked Star Trek until the JJ started raping the franchise.

Discovery makes Enterprise look like a masterpiece that in itself is saying something right there!

But oh well if you like it more power to you but I don't see Discovery make it more than 4 seasons tops. Fans will hate it and for good reason and the mainstream simply doesn't care about Star Trek to subscribe which leads to CBS pulling the plug.

One of my favorite sci-fi shows of all time is DS9. I also loved The Next Generation, and even Voyager after Seven of Nine joined. Enterprise... not so much.

My ideal new Star Trek show would have been about the aftermath of the Dominion war, maybe bringing back some characters from TNG, DS9 and Voyager. But I just made the most of what we've got, and I enjoyed what I watched. The world would be a boring place if we all had the same opinion about everything, wouldn't it?

Seems I own a like minded person (except for the Discovery part :)) an apology. In my opinion DS9 is the best but TNG is my favorite series. What you just described is also what I always wished that they continued the Dominion arc since it ended on a cease fire. I always said they could have done this in a movie with the crew from TNG,DS9 and hell even get the Voyager crew in there somehow but alas what we got was the JJ Abrahams trash.

And like I said you are entitled to your opinion it's just that I love Star Trek so much I can be a bit passionate and sometimes rude about it while discussing the things how it all went downhill after Voyager.. Voyager wasn't excellent either but all in all it was entertaining and at it's core still Star Trek despite all the things I'm not going into since this is about Discovery.

The amazing (great?) thing about somethign like Trek fandom is the weird combinations of likes and dislikes you get. I could not possibly disagree with Caesar more about Discovery which I so far hated, but I also disagree with you about the new movies and Enterprise which I liked. That's just how it goes.

That said, I'm still amazed how anyone could like Discovery, regardless of it being or not being proper Trek. It's just so badly written and makes so little sense.

Was Enterprise trash? No it wasn't despite many mistakes like them encountering the borg while Q introduces them for the first time to them in TNG because Picard got cocky. It's small things like that that really annoy the hell out of me but that's just me. All in all Enterprise had a great premise to be truly awesome but instead the team went with villian of the week instead of how the UFP came to be. Enterprise was good scifi but not good Star Trek but that's my opinion and my opinion isn't fact :)

The JJ movies let's not go there those I hate with a passion and well everything that could have been said about those movies has been said through the years from both sides. So once again if you like them that's fine. I hate them and hope that's fine too? :)

Discoverery, unlike Enterprise, has nothing going for it they set themselves up for failure just with the pilot episode alone. If we just stick with the klingons at least in Enterprise you got an explenation for why they looked like they did in TOS and that is why it makes no sense how the klingons look in Discovery because it takes place a decade before TOS. And like I said before i hate these miniscule things which make no sense in the Star Trek lore and universe.

But we will see how Discovery pans out despite me hating it atm I will still give it a chance since it's by Bryan Fuller and Joe Menosky who both wrote some excellent episodes for DS9 (Fuller) and Voyager (both). I hope they prove me wrong and if not then I'll just stick with TOS, TNG, DS9 and Voyager.

The new ship is kind of weird looking

I actually think the Borg episode in Ent was a good way to turn the whole thing into a nice Terminator-style time loop. And it actually helps make sense of some loose ends - like it's strongly implied Borg are responsible for the attacks that Enterprise and the Romulans are investigating at the end of TNG first season (so before we ever actually see them, and this would explain them coming for us already at that point), or Seven's parents investigating Borg years before that incident with Q.

And regardless of whether it fits perfectly in canon, at the very least it's makes Borg feel scary and way out of our league again after Voyager turned them into a punchline in it's later seasons (I like Voy, but that is one thing that really pisses me off about it).

I kinda do too, but at the same time I know they don't really matter. As long as overall we're getting a good movie or tv series I can let a lot slide. I think it's important to be able to judge everything from both standpoints - as part of the Trek franchise, and just on it's own merits. Canon can be important, it allows for building more complex stories in a better contructed world, but in other cases it can be stone around a promising story's neck. Like I said at the start, some of the best Trek books I read don't fit into canon at all, but they're still bloody great and true to Trek's spirit. The problem with Discovery is it fails both as part of the franchise, and on it's own merits. At least for now.

I think Discovery will fail, but I give it a try soon.
But from the trailers, it looks not good, it seems the creator dont know Star Trek, also i thought it plays after Voyager, because it looks even more futuristic.
Biggest fail are the new Klingons...I mean purple Star Trek (2009) Klingons, why not make a new race instead, why do they destroy this great race more now?
Also I dont think the maincast is interesting...

That's an easy one. It's against Federation and Vulcan values, evidently. That's why it was kept a secret: Out of shame to live up to those values. Out of fear you can't teach those if you can't stick to them. It's a dark and illogical spot on Vulcan culture, so they don't mention it.

Star Trek Discovery: So far, I'm in. I can't yet say whether I like it or not, but that is mainly due to the premise of the series.

The two pilot episodes aimed, narratively, at something completely different than previous ST pilots did, that was very obvious. It introduced us to the history of the Klingon war and the plights of a single character. It didn't introduce us to the series' namesake ship, or even its crew. Where previous pilots were awkward in their forced and prolonged expository sequences (I'm personally not a big fan of i.e. Picard and Riker's first conversation... it's like Picard is pouring out his heart to Will, and that's just not what he'd do), Discovery showed us a crew where things have 'clicked' long ago. I was delighted to hear that they've been together for seven years, mirroring the seven TNG seasons.

And I don't care what others think, the dynamics between Georgiou and Burnham rival even Riker and Picard's. Damn shame the experience is so short lived. I wasn't a big fan of that final battle and the way they got rid of Georgiou. That's not because it resembled Abrams' Star Trek movies, but cinematic Trek in general. Like you, I probably would have wanted more of the serialized Trek clichés instead of a Star Trek VII, VIII, IX, or X finale.

But that may yet be to come. We have our main character very well established (and, yes, I like her a lot), we know why she'll be despised on the Discovery. We have our overarching plot, equally well established. And it looks like there will at the very least be glimpses of the episodic in this series (the return of a TOS character will likely be limited to one episode only, and then there's that little bombshell that blabbermouth director dropped, whatshisname... Jonathan Freak or something).

Basically, the Discovery series as of yet lacks discovery. I believe it has above mentioned reasons and will be rectified. If it won't be rectified, the series can piss off. :)

PS: Undecided on the Klingons. Yet another redesign Worf won't be able to properly explain. :)

PPS: I actually do like the Discovery theme. It's just that the reminescence at the end is particularly heavy handed. And I'm so grateful that we have orchestral music playing again during the series, defo not the worst. Berman had killed most of that in TNG. That spacesuit launch sequence theme? That was pretty damn great.

I haven't given up hope yet. :) The optimist in me believes that, if Discovery is successful and they continue making Star Trek TV shows, the story will eventually go forward and we'll know what happens next.