Except it's still not clear, how Klingons managed to do this, moreso on the level that medical scans didn't pick up anything, but some scar tissue. Seriously, what is Federation scanner worth if it can't detect genetical material from a different species!

And if it was a mind transfer like in Return to Tommorrow or Turnabout Intruder, than why there were signs of surgical procedures at all (not to mention that such tech is far above Klingon and Federation level).

Well not exact words but the sentiment was certainly there. Burnham feared she can't face Tyler, Tilly I think talks her into it because they are likely to die and she will regret it when she is dead. Tyler says he's got Voq under control, Burnham tells him she doesn't know if she will be able to see him as anything else than murdering Klingon who killed many people. Tyler rebutes by stating she is pushing him away because she doesn't want to love him because Klingons killed her family and now she is afraid of her love toward Klingon. Which he is totally not anymore.
Just some mind-blowing stuff.



From what you write I really am not sure whether you really like it or not.
I geuss you were sarcastic and find it bad but it is often hard to tell.


1. In last 365 days I have seen every single Star Trek thing there is and I don't want to miss a thing now.
2. If I start a show I try to stick with it if I can, no matter how bad it is.
3. I am optimist and constantly hope it will get better.
2. Yes, I am masochist. No, I enjoy bad movies often and why not enjoy bad series from time to time too. :-)
2. I like coming here every week, read people bashing of the show and it's better when I know what they are laking about:-)


Well, he was dead but he got better. I don't understand where is the problem.

Honestly, I don't understand it either. I thought they said they found Tyler's dead body and used it to remodel Voq's body according to it and then imprinted some fake identity over Voq to make him some kind of sleeper agent.
PRE-POST EDIT: OK? I am leaving there the previous but I took a look at Memory Alpha and they say Klingson captured Tyler?
So they captured him, used his body as model for Voq's, then took his consciousness and placed it over Voq's to hide him.
And then he was supposed to wake and take over but he got only partial control so L'Rel who masterminded the plan and loves Voq performed some kind of operation to possibly permanently lock Voq's consciousness and leave Tyler in control.
Do I get that right?
Even if I do, does it make any sense to anyone?

It would mean Tyler got body for "free".
If they were able to transfer Tyler's mind to Voq why wouldn't they either put Voq's into Tyler's body instead to avoid the torturous operation or why not just swap the minds? That wouldn't be unheard of in Star Trek either.

Actually, she never says that. And we know such traces exist, because he still has Voq's memories. The doctor only says that "the patient now presents as Ash Tyler". And she admits that they do not understand the process at all, which means that can't be sure of jack shit.

Pretty much this. Over most of my life I stuck with the franchise for 13 movies, five TV shows, one animated show and god knows how many books, comics, games and even fan films. It's hard to abandon ship now, though I'm almost there. And yeah, talking about the show here and with some friends and ranting about how it sucks is kinda fun. And I like to pick apart bad movies and TV.

And yes, I also kind of hope it will get better, even if it shows no signs of it. Despite the fact pretty much all characters act like idiots, I still like Saru and could probably like Stammets if he got some decent writing. I could see the show becoming something at least decent if only it got better writers that actually know what they are doing, and if it stopped trying to be like every other "cool" show with the twists, sex, gore and death.

Wooooo! Falcon is da king.

Now, after being turned off yesterday by this crap, I want to see some space sci-fi again.

Honestly, this series is just all over the place and I have the impression that they had many meetings how to make the series inclusive and diverse.

Shortly before the filming began an intern dared to mention in the last meeting "Well, what about the story of the series, what about the character development along those stories?"

Silence followed...

Damn that was a bad episode.
I guess I need to rewatch "Spock's Brain" three times to get over this.


Some highlights:

Stupid Admiral: Hey you are Klingon, you are winning the war, how does this war end?
Stupid Klingon: It doesn't.
Stupid Admiral: Okay, thanks.

Stupid protagonist: How can we win the war?
Stupid mirror universe double: You gotta fight.
Stupid protagonist: Okay thanks.

Stupid Vulcan: So you lied to our daughter, who's like really not related to either one of us, about this war stuff. Your plan is a brutal massacre, it's a no-no, we are good guys.
Stupid mirror universe double: It's logical, dude.
Stupid Vulcan: Okay thanks. So what do you really want in exchange for your brutal massacre plan?
Stupid mirror universe double: Freedom. (I'm totally not brutal dictator anymore.)
Stupid Vulcan: Okay thanks.

Stupid gay: Hey Klingon, you killed my gay partner so we can't have gay kiss scenes like we used to have in every episode. I hope you feel bad about that.
Stupid human Klingon: Yeah, I totally do, dude.
Stupid gay: Okay thanks.

Stupid protagonist: I'm about to cry.
Stupid Vulcan: I know you're hurt by the fact that you lost your virginity to a human who's really a Klingon, and that you saved your Captain who's really a brutal dictator. But it's okay my so-called daughter. Make love, not war.
Stupid protagonist: Okay thanks.

Stupid protagonist: You tried to kill me after you took my virginity.
Stupid human Klingon: Yeah, but the reason I exist is you. Hope you don't have attitude problems with the fact that I used to be a Klingon, 'cause, your parents were killed by Klingons and all that.
Stupid protagonist: I know you used to be a Klingon, and I know that you're not a Klingon now, but I see a Klingon in your eyes, and now I'm off to destroy the Klingon homeworld, so have a nice life dude.
Stupid human Klingon: Okay thanks.

Stupid Admiral: Hey look, your old Captain really isn't dead or anything. We just sentenced that protagonist to lifelong sentence just for fun. It was like a joke, folks, loosen up.
Stupid crew: Look, lady, we just came from the mirror world and she's an evil dictator and all that.
Stupid Admiral: No really, she's wearing our uniform. And she's even kind to our protagonist!
Stupid crew: Okay, you're totally right, thanks.


On a positive side it's good to know that you can terraform a planet in 30 seconds. + + +

I wonder what the big deal with Dr. Carol Marcus's Genesis torpedo was (in the future to come) though. I mean she was basically copying stuff that was apparently common knowledge, and that thing took like an eternity (minutes) to terraform a dead world. I guess terraforming is like the skill of writing - something that was widely known at some point, then forgotten by people, only to be rediscovered later. Who would have thought?

Spock's Brain is still lightyears ahead of this. I mean, if you get over the initial B-movie premise it's more or less internally consistant and doesn't make any of the characters into complete morons on unlikeable assholes. But most of all - it's stupidity is self contained. It doesn't harm the rest of the show. That's the problem with telling one continous story in a tv show. Plot holes of one episode don't go away after the credits roll. It's all one story, all the plot holes and stupid decisions are part of it. We can move on from Spock's Brain straight to the great Enterprise Incident and mostly forget Brain as an inconsequential funny detour. No such luxury for Discovery.

Yeah, and 60s TV is awesome anyways. So colourful and campy, in a good way.
Star Trek and Batman are my favorite shows of all times. Having overly theatrical lead actors like William Shatner and Adam West really suits that era. Any episode of those series would make my day any time.
I wonder how it's possible that entertainment is progressing backwards, and we reached the peak 50 years ago. And no movie can match 2001: A Space Odyssey. Then again, we haven't been to the Moon since those times either.
I wonder if it's possible to invent a time machine, to go back to where I have never been...



Blasphemy!!!!

How can you link to such garbage, when this is the only true version!



They tried that with first two seasons of (Star Trek:) Enterprise.
When no one was watching, they added "Star Trek" in there in an attempt to gain few more fans for the show. It was too little and too late, and the show ended up getting cancelled as we all know.

So it's not the naming convention that's the problem with Star Trek these days. I think what might (maybe) save Star Trek is if they did a show that is completely from an alien perspective, and showing a race that is not Klingon, Vulcan, or Romulan. I guess Andorians or Orions are kind of fan favorites, so a show set on those worlds or whatever, showing Federation only as sidekicks (or not at all) might be a fresh and workable idea.

Have you seen the animated Batman vs Two Face movie with Adam West and Shatner as Two-Face? It really is the team up dream are made of. And I'm not kidding when I say that Shatner's Two-Face is a truly great performance, not even in a campy way.

I'll be honest, I don't much like 2001. It's really boring and pretentious to me. Weirdly enough I really like the sequel, 2010, unlike most people.

As a fan of TNG, DS9 and Enterprise, I would disagree on this. Second half of 90-s had many examplary works of sci-fi. Including remakes and reimaginings (like Second Wave was reimagining of The Ivaders).

Well, 2001 is one of those movies that seem like waste of time the first time you watch, but get better and better by every repeated viewing no matter how many times you see it. I guess it breaks so many commonly accepted motion picture conventions that simply the shock is too much to take when seeing it first time.

What's so good about 2001 is that there's no magical technology there. Everything you see can also be built in real life, if someone is committed and puts the cash on the table. I also love how technology like spaceships are shown as art, with plenty of time given simply to see them. The same thing was what made Star Trek: The Motion Picture stand out from the rest of Star Trek.


Yeah, there's good stuff around. You left out Babylon 5.
But overall, there's no creative peak anymore. Star Trek, 2001, Planet of the Apes, etc. it all happened in the 60s.
Maybe the entertainment business has run out of ideas, or maybe they have run out of LSD, but for some reason 60s wins overall.

How many episodes is left in this season?

Love the top comment:
"This is what REALLY killed Bowie."

One. So pretty much zero chance of the war wrapping up this season, which in turn kills my interest in season two. My entire hope for any improvement relies on a fresh start with a new story.

I'm not insane. I'm on a journey of discovery! hoo hoo hoo!

What's really depressing for me is that I keep seeing Discovery get good reviews. Apparently this level of writing is not only perfectly acceptable today, it's even praise worthy. I just... what the hell is wrong with people? Even a friend of mine is perfectly ok with all this stupidity and essentially considers me half insane for actually thinking while watching. I mean that. He doesn't disagree with me, with what I point out, he just doesn't think it matters and basically tells me it's my fault that I care, not the writers' fault that they write nonsense.

Sigh.

The show will never improve. Why should it, if the majority is apparently jsut fine with it as it is?