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General discussionRelease: Victor Vran(1056 posts)(1056 posts)
(1056 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 24, 2015
Greetings, Hunters!

<span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, an action filled next step in aRPG design, is available now for Windows and Mac - complete with GOG Galaxy Achievements, DRM-free, and 10% off for the first week!

In a genre that's seen immense highs and extended lows, it seems that we're always waiting for the secret formula for the perfect action RPG. Some say it's all about an overwhelming amount of loot, upgrades and treats galore. Others choose to experiment with new and innovative ways to connect their players, or to give them new types of control over making their character one of a kind. Victor Vran brings its own answers to the table.

It's a game that places movement and action first, truly putting the "action" in the aRPG, eliminating the boundaries of a traditional class system, and opting for freeform gear-based progression. A combat-oriented approach doesn't mean that Victor Vran is lacking in the other departments either - there's plenty of loot to collect and increasingly awesome weapons to find (including what looks an awful lot like a lightsaber) as well as innovative character progression. All that's there, however, is enhanced by an unprecedented movement system that will have you (and up to 4 of your co-op buddies) leaping, dodging and wallrunning. It's a game where survival is based on so much more than how hard you can hit.



GOG.com Exclusive Bonus
For a little something special, your copy of the game will come with a one-time-use GOG.com-exclusive Treasure Key! Just log in to your GOG.com account, start your single-player game, and redeem it in-game for a fountain of gold and the following drops:

- Med Kit (Legendary) - An endless healing potion.
- Hope Destiny Card (Uncommon) - Provides additional health when equipped. Can be equipped on level 2.
- Diamond Demon Power (Uncommon) - Creates a protective shield. Can be equipped immediately.
- Gift Box - A box that can be opened for random loot.
- Red, Green and Blue dyes - Used to colorize your outfit. Transmutation unlocks at level 16.




Q&A With The Devs
Have questions about the game that only the devs can answer? Join the team behind Victor Vran for a special Q&A session this coming Monday!
Boyan (Lead Designer) and Momchil (Designer) from Haemimont Games will be visiting our forums on Monday (July 27) starting 6pm GMT (8pm CEST / 2pm EST / 11am PST to answer all your questions about the game, the life behind game development, or their favorite type of sandwich. Save the date, stay tuned for the announcement thread, and come hang out with us.


Experience the definition of "a" in aRPG with <span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, DRM-free on GOG.com! The launch discount will last for one week, until Friday, July 31, at 9:59 AM GMT.
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: Says who exactly? The term DRM has no standard definition... which is why it highly debated. In simple terms however it is largely agreed DRM is restrictions after sale. Generally DRM Free means the ability to uninstall & install said product unlimited times, copy said product unlimited times, is not controlled by the developer after sale, ect.

If we go with that, the product is DRM free...
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throgh: Nope: The only part you are referring to is the singleplayer. If that's the case: Yeah, absolutely. But the complete product "Victor Vran" is defined through all parts and that exactly implies also the multiplayer. And that is part of a discussion. For customers concentrated only on singleplayer-actions this might be correct. But the complete software is only partly usable per definition and bound to an external account-system. In fact we could furthermore fade out these facts and define the pure installation as DRM-free, so "yes". But getting the whole package is another round, so "no". What then? Three wise monkeys?
Trying to justify online muliplayer on the DRM term is crazy. Why? Because online multiplayer is a service that you subscribe too. Unlike single player it is not something your guaranteed by buying the game. Read any EULA for any online game. Furthermore, online muliplayer requires using something not found in the game, the game server, which you connect to arguablly all the real stuff happens there which is outside of the game meaning not something you can't put the DRM label on.

Yes alternatives for said product could be LAN ect, but that is a design choice. Not including that does not suddenly make a program have DRM.

EDIT: Actually I should say ANY online features are a service... read that EULA.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by BKGaming
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: There are other alternatives here on GOG which have a strong singleplayer-focus (http://www.gog.com/game/shadows_heretic_kingdoms) but perhabs the people want to be bound to an account-system for multiplayer and the definition of DRM-free is going to be more diluted by this. But okay, let's see where this leads to. :-)
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ricki42: Not to derail this thread, but the game you linked is Windows-only. Victor Vran devs seem to be planning to get the Linux version to GOG, and have had great Linux support on Steam from the start. Personally, I'd consider Windows far worse in terms of DRM than the (easily ignored) option to redeem a key online. Even if you play the game through wine, it's still a Windows sale vs. (hopefully soon) a Linux sale for Victor Vran, reinforcing that Windows games sell, and Linux games don't. I rather ignore the key and support the devs who support Linux, than buy a game that supports Windows. Not that I haven't on occasion bought Windows-only games myself, but you present it as a better alternative, and I'd see it as very much worse.
Ehm, sorry what? Just accept "Victor Vran" and its multiplayer-bounding because it got a native Linux-version? You mean this really serious? I've installed the game mentioned above with no further problems using WINE. And yes: For me this IS the better alternative. I have not said this should be for all others here, but if reading back some pages within this discussion the singleplayer-part and its fully DRM-free content is mentioned. Besides the fact that most users here use also Windows instead of Linux this is an alternative. You could blame me for mentioning this one, but that is your problem not mine at all. Linux-gaming is also defined through more than native versions and that also concludes with WINE.

Just for the summary at the moment: Yeah we are having here the "three wise monkeys": See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
Posted July 26, 2015
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011284mm: Well then it does contain DRM.
The cheat code is controlled by the developers server, as are the treasure hunts. Now you do not need to connect to the developers to install and play the game, but to get your little DLC cheats you do, and the cheat is a limited use code as well (controlled by the developer).

EDIT:: Clarity I hope.
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BKGaming: No it does not "control" you... that twisting what was meant. You can do anything you want in the confines of how the game was designed. Controlling you would be not allow you to install more than say 5 tines, or making you connect to on-line to confirm you own the game, ect. The purpose of DRM in reference to controlling you is stopping you from doing anything the developer might feel breaches the EULA you agree too. That is not the case here.

This is the way the game is designed, they are in no way controlling what you can do with said game now that you own it... you can install it on 50 PC's, you can play it fully without ever getting online, ect.
I was not twisting anything. I only took the words you had written and found an example that has been brought up here in this thread many times previously. I cannot have my own examples I have not bought the game, nor played it previously.

I have nothing against online authentication for multi-player. In fact it is one aspect I would say developers and publishers have the right to control the players ability to connect - within reason. Making sure only paying customers get to experience the "social" side of the game and making sure illegal copies and bad players do not suck resources, or ruin the game for others.
I draw the line at DRM affecting the single player experience. So I am personally happy to have Victor Vran here for people to play. I have even stated earlier that I think GOG did a good job to bring this game here.
Yet still the "GOG.com Exclusive Bonus" is behind DRM. To get it, even in the single player you need to connect to the developers servers - when they go down / developers stops supporting the game, the bonus disappears. It is also only a single use item, so you cannot have it with every play through. Again this is controlled by the developers doing this on their servers.
I have no personal problem with the developers wanting to do this, I even can see several very good reasons to do such a thing. Yet still this does make the "GOG.com Exclusive Bonus" ironically DRMed.
You have got to see the irony and the shear humour in it.
I hope you can also see why no-one should be having a problem with the game itself, now we have had it confirmed by very reliable members of the forums that the game works so far no problems. Still the bonus is up for debate as is GOGs reasoning.

As the developer of TALES OF MAJ'EYAL was able to build a patch basically over night (trust me I spoke to the poor guy during the fiasco), to fix a server controlled part of his game. Then you can expect people have high expectations of the team behind a rather larger release to do the same.
Posted July 26, 2015
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ricki42: Not to derail this thread, but the game you linked is Windows-only. Victor Vran devs seem to be planning to get the Linux version to GOG, and have had great Linux support on Steam from the start. Personally, I'd consider Windows far worse in terms of DRM than the (easily ignored) option to redeem a key online. Even if you play the game through wine, it's still a Windows sale vs. (hopefully soon) a Linux sale for Victor Vran, reinforcing that Windows games sell, and Linux games don't. I rather ignore the key and support the devs who support Linux, than buy a game that supports Windows. Not that I haven't on occasion bought Windows-only games myself, but you present it as a better alternative, and I'd see it as very much worse.
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throgh: Ehm, sorry what? Just accept "Victor Vran" and its multiplayer-bounding because it got a native Linux-version? You mean this really serious? I've installed the game mentioned above with no further problems using WINE. And yes: For me this IS the better alternative. I have not said this should be for all others here, but if reading back some pages within this discussion the singleplayer-part and its fully DRM-free content is mentioned. Besides the fact that most users here use also Windows instead of Linux this is an alternative. You could blame me for mentioning this one, but that is your problem not mine at all. Linux-gaming is also defined through more than native versions and that also concludes with WINE.

Just for the summary at the moment: Yeah we are having here the "three wise monkeys": See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
Not true.
Earlier in the trhead i was sceptical and said pretty clear that if there was DRM on the game i woud not buy any game here.
But after investigating the matter and asking around i got convinced otherwise.
Do i need to dig up my earlier post to prove the point?

Also i also got confused by wich side of the argument i was going to listen to because people were trhowing claims all around.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by Lodium
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: Trying to justify online muliplayer on the DRM term is crazy. Why? Because online multiplayer is a service that you subscribe too. Unlike single player it is not something your guaranteed by buying the game. Read any EULA for any online game. Furthermore, online muliplayer requires using something not found in the game, the game server, which you connect to arguablly all the real stuff happens there which is outside of the game meaning not something you can't put the DRM label on.
Yes, ONLINE-multiplayer is centralized by server and so on based on some kind of subscription-model. But per definition MULTIPLAYER is a little bit more than that and cannot be reduced to only one part at all. Exactly to implement a normal communication using TCP/IP for LAN or server-based communication is not that complex these days. Which brings us than to:

avatar
BKGaming: Yes alternatives for said product could be LAN ect, but that is a design choice. Not including that does not suddenly make a program have DRM.
Yes that is a design choice and it is also a choice to write the correct product information that only the singleplayer-part is full accessible and no LAN-mode at the moment is included. That may vary in the future, of course. But for now it is the way to go. :-)
Posted July 26, 2015
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011284mm: I have nothing against online authentication for multi-player. In fact it is one aspect I would say developers and publishers have the right to control the players ability to connect - within reason. Making sure only paying customers get to experience the "social" side of the game and making sure illegal copies and bad players do not suck resources, or ruin the game for others.
I draw the line at DRM affecting the single player experience. So I am personally happy to have Victor Vran here for people to play. I have even stated earlier that I think GOG did a good job to bring this game here.
Yet still the "GOG.com Exclusive Bonus" is behind DRM. To get it, even in the single player you need to connect to the developers servers - when they go down / developers stops supporting the game, the bonus disappears. It is also only a single use item, so you cannot have it with every play through. Again this is controlled by the developers doing this on their servers.
I have no personal problem with the developers wanting to do this, I even can see several very good reasons to do such a thing. Yet still this does make the "GOG.com Exclusive Bonus" ironically DRMed.
You have got to see the irony and the shear humour in it.
I hope you can also see why no-one should be having a problem with the game itself, now we have had it confirmed by very reliable members of the forums that the game works so far no problems. Still the bonus is up for debate as is GOGs reasoning.
That's the problem though, it's not black and white. You see it as a feature that effects single player, it not. It's an online feature that interacts with single player. This is becoming more common in some games, as I stated before see Dark Souls for an example. This does not stop you for getting the full single player experience without it, so it does not effect the experience at all. But if you are online it can be enriched by it.

As I said above these online services are just that services that you are not entitled too according to the EULA, You subscribe to them, they are not part of the core experience that you are buying. If you don't want to subscribe that is your choice, it does not however make it DRM.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by BKGaming
Posted July 26, 2015
Honestly surprised this released on GOG given how the devs are adamant they won't sell it in Japan on Steam. They keep giving some lame excuse about needing to localise first and won't listen to anyone telling them there's no such need. All while selling in other regions they claim to be localising for, before said localisation.

Maybe I'll pick it up on GOG in a sale as base price is too high given local exchange rate.
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: Ehm, sorry what? Just accept "Victor Vran" and its multiplayer-bounding because it got a native Linux-version? You mean this really serious? I've installed the game mentioned above with no further problems using WINE. And yes: For me this IS the better alternative. I have not said this should be for all others here, but if reading back some pages within this discussion the singleplayer-part and its fully DRM-free content is mentioned. Besides the fact that most users here use also Windows instead of Linux this is an alternative. You could blame me for mentioning this one, but that is your problem not mine at all. Linux-gaming is also defined through more than native versions and that also concludes with WINE.

Just for the summary at the moment: Yeah we are having here the "three wise monkeys": See no evil, hear no evil, speak no evil.
avatar
Lodium: Not true.
Earlier in the trhead i was sceptical and said pretty clear that if there was DRM on the game i woud not buy any game here.
But after investigating the matter and asking around i got convinced otherwise.
Do i need to dig up my earlier post to prove the point?

Also i also got confused by wich side of the argument i was going to listen to because people were trhowing claims all around.
No need to dig up earlier posts. The problem is only that we are talking also about the DRM-free definition and from my point of view have a little missunderstanding how deep this really goes. Yes, the singleplayer-part is exactly full DRM-free. No doubt! But I have my problems with the multiplayer, which is even more important having optional fun with friends to kill monsters and enemies per mouse-click. :-) The comparison to three monkeys is the only way I have in mind for now because in some postings there is only to read about singleplayer. But the complete product got both parts. And the design-choice for a server-based only multiplayer is questionable.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by throgh
Posted July 26, 2015
low rated
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BKGaming: Trying to justify online muliplayer on the DRM term is crazy. Why? Because online multiplayer is a service that you subscribe too. Unlike single player it is not something your guaranteed by buying the game. Read any EULA for any online game. Furthermore, online muliplayer requires using something not found in the game, the game server, which you connect to arguablly all the real stuff happens there which is outside of the game meaning not something you can't put the DRM label on.
avatar
throgh: Yes, ONLINE-multiplayer is centralized by server and so on based on some kind of subscription-model. But per definition MULTIPLAYER is a little bit more than that and cannot be reduced to only one part at all. Exactly to implement a normal communication using TCP/IP for LAN or server-based communication is not that complex these days. Which brings us than to:

avatar
BKGaming: Yes alternatives for said product could be LAN ect, but that is a design choice. Not including that does not suddenly make a program have DRM.
avatar
throgh: Yes that is a design choice and it is also a choice to write the correct product information that only the singleplayer-part is full accessible and no LAN-mode at the moment is included. That may vary in the future, of course. But for now it is the way to go. :-)
I clarified above any online component is a service according to the EULA (well for ones I've read anyway), but I do generally agree this stuff should be better labeled by GOG. I still however won't agree it's DRM. ;)
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: Yes, ONLINE-multiplayer is centralized by server and so on based on some kind of subscription-model. But per definition MULTIPLAYER is a little bit more than that and cannot be reduced to only one part at all. Exactly to implement a normal communication using TCP/IP for LAN or server-based communication is not that complex these days. Which brings us than to:

Yes that is a design choice and it is also a choice to write the correct product information that only the singleplayer-part is full accessible and no LAN-mode at the moment is included. That may vary in the future, of course. But for now it is the way to go. :-)
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BKGaming: I clarified above any online component is a service according to the EULA (well for ones I've read anyway), but I do generally agree this stuff should be better labeled by GOG. I still however won't agree it's DRM. ;)
So than we have some kind of understanding here. Just finding another wording perhaps, but a better information and label would be helpful. :-)
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: Trying to justify online muliplayer on the DRM term is crazy. Why? Because online multiplayer is a service that you subscribe too. Unlike single player it is not something your guaranteed by buying the game. Read any EULA for any online game. Furthermore, online muliplayer requires using something not found in the game, the game server, which you connect to arguablly all the real stuff happens there which is outside of the game meaning not something you can't put the DRM label on.
avatar
throgh: Yes, ONLINE-multiplayer is centralized by server and so on based on some kind of subscription-model. But per definition MULTIPLAYER is a little bit more than that and cannot be reduced to only one part at all. Exactly to implement a normal communication using TCP/IP for LAN or server-based communication is not that complex these days. Which brings us than to:

avatar
BKGaming: Yes alternatives for said product could be LAN ect, but that is a design choice. Not including that does not suddenly make a program have DRM.
avatar
throgh: Yes that is a design choice and it is also a choice to write the correct product information that only the singleplayer-part is full accessible and no LAN-mode at the moment is included. That may vary in the future, of course. But for now it is the way to go. :-)
Also while LAN might be be complex, it's also not that popular anymore. Most of your gamers today want dedicated servers, see you COD crowds. To most developers it's probably not worth the time. ;)
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: Ehm, sorry what? Just accept "Victor Vran" and its multiplayer-bounding because it got a native Linux-version? You mean this really serious? I've installed the game mentioned above with no further problems using WINE. And yes: For me this IS the better alternative. I have not said this should be for all others here, but if reading back some pages within this discussion the singleplayer-part and its fully DRM-free content is mentioned. Besides the fact that most users here use also Windows instead of Linux this is an alternative. You could blame me for mentioning this one, but that is your problem not mine at all. Linux-gaming is also defined through more than native versions and that also concludes with WINE.
What's 'multiplayer-bounding'? I've never heard that word. All I know is that I get a complete offline single-player campaign that I can back up and install where ever I want whenever I want. None of the other stuff adds any content, so I'm not missing out of anything.
Regarding wine: of course it has it's uses, but I vastly prefer native. I would have thought that was a fairly common view amongst Linux gamers.
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: Yes, ONLINE-multiplayer is centralized by server and so on based on some kind of subscription-model. But per definition MULTIPLAYER is a little bit more than that and cannot be reduced to only one part at all. Exactly to implement a normal communication using TCP/IP for LAN or server-based communication is not that complex these days. Which brings us than to:

Yes that is a design choice and it is also a choice to write the correct product information that only the singleplayer-part is full accessible and no LAN-mode at the moment is included. That may vary in the future, of course. But for now it is the way to go. :-)
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BKGaming: Also while LAN might be be complex, it's also not that popular anymore. Most of your gamers today want dedicated servers, see you COD crowds. To most developers it's probably not worth the time. ;)
Indeed that could be part of another discussion. Call me a little bit of old-fashioned but I like my personal freedom and a multiplayer-mode used years after the centralized servers gone down has its own excitement - just to call for SpellForce 2 as an example for that. :D
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: No it does not "control" you... that is twisting what was meant. You can do anything you want in the confines of how the game was designed.
I want to play the single-player treasure hunt NEA-6NW-HJ7, which is part of the game as designed. How do I do it without going online?
Posted July 26, 2015
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Lodium: Not true.
Earlier in the trhead i was sceptical and said pretty clear that if there was DRM on the game i woud not buy any game here.
But after investigating the matter and asking around i got convinced otherwise.
Do i need to dig up my earlier post to prove the point?

Also i also got confused by wich side of the argument i was going to listen to because people were trhowing claims all around.
avatar
throgh: No need to dig up earlier posts. The problem is only that we are talking also about the DRM-free definition and from my point of view have a little missunderstanding how deep this really goes. Yes, the singleplayer-part is exactly full DRM-free. No doubt! But I have my problems with the multiplayer, which is even more important having optional fun with friends to kill monsters and enemies per mouse-click. :-) The comparison to three monkeys is the only way I have in mind for now because in some postings there is only to read about singleplayer. But the complete product got both parts. And the design-choice for a server-based only multiplayer is questionable.
Well, there are both pros and cons
regarding offline multiplayer or private servers etc.
Even if you have a private server, it dont have to be you that are controlling the server/hosting.
So considering that argument, even such thing as hammachi coud be termed DRM.
If the Host decides to be a jackass there is not much you can do as a guest even if you are best friends or something.
The only way of preventing that if you host the server/lan game yourself.
Some games lets you save progress or caracter stats to carry over to prevent such hassles
but thats not all games since coding these extra features naturally cost extra money and resources.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by Lodium
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionRelease: Victor Vran(1056 posts)(1056 posts)
(1056 posts)