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General discussionRelease: Victor Vran(1056 posts)(1056 posts)
(1056 posts)
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This is my favourite topic
Posted July 24, 2015
Greetings, Hunters!

<span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, an action filled next step in aRPG design, is available now for Windows and Mac - complete with GOG Galaxy Achievements, DRM-free, and 10% off for the first week!

In a genre that's seen immense highs and extended lows, it seems that we're always waiting for the secret formula for the perfect action RPG. Some say it's all about an overwhelming amount of loot, upgrades and treats galore. Others choose to experiment with new and innovative ways to connect their players, or to give them new types of control over making their character one of a kind. Victor Vran brings its own answers to the table.

It's a game that places movement and action first, truly putting the "action" in the aRPG, eliminating the boundaries of a traditional class system, and opting for freeform gear-based progression. A combat-oriented approach doesn't mean that Victor Vran is lacking in the other departments either - there's plenty of loot to collect and increasingly awesome weapons to find (including what looks an awful lot like a lightsaber) as well as innovative character progression. All that's there, however, is enhanced by an unprecedented movement system that will have you (and up to 4 of your co-op buddies) leaping, dodging and wallrunning. It's a game where survival is based on so much more than how hard you can hit.



GOG.com Exclusive Bonus
For a little something special, your copy of the game will come with a one-time-use GOG.com-exclusive Treasure Key! Just log in to your GOG.com account, start your single-player game, and redeem it in-game for a fountain of gold and the following drops:

- Med Kit (Legendary) - An endless healing potion.
- Hope Destiny Card (Uncommon) - Provides additional health when equipped. Can be equipped on level 2.
- Diamond Demon Power (Uncommon) - Creates a protective shield. Can be equipped immediately.
- Gift Box - A box that can be opened for random loot.
- Red, Green and Blue dyes - Used to colorize your outfit. Transmutation unlocks at level 16.




Q&A With The Devs
Have questions about the game that only the devs can answer? Join the team behind Victor Vran for a special Q&A session this coming Monday!
Boyan (Lead Designer) and Momchil (Designer) from Haemimont Games will be visiting our forums on Monday (July 27) starting 6pm GMT (8pm CEST / 2pm EST / 11am PST to answer all your questions about the game, the life behind game development, or their favorite type of sandwich. Save the date, stay tuned for the announcement thread, and come hang out with us.


Experience the definition of "a" in aRPG with <span class="bold">Victor Vran</span>, DRM-free on GOG.com! The launch discount will last for one week, until Friday, July 31, at 9:59 AM GMT.
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: That's the problem though, it's not black and white. You see it as a feature that effects single player, it not. It's an online feature that interacts with single player. This is becoming more common in some games, as I stated before see Dark Souls for an example. This does not stop you for getting the full single player experience without it, so it does not effect the experience at all. But if you are online it can be enriched by it.

As I said above these online services are just that services that you are not entitled too according to the EULA, You subscribe to them, they are not part of the core experience that you are buying. If you don't to subscribe that is your choice, it does not however make it DRM.
Managing your Rights to access something Digitally. That is just backwards DRM then.

On this not being black and white. I will agree.
We each see this differently. You say that the cheat code is an enhancement to the game. The next person says he feels cheated as he has to make an external account to play the enhanced version. The next person says they can live without and the last cries the game is rigged.
All are valid to them I am sure, and they are all seeing the same thing. They just perceive it differently. I say the cheat code is behind DRM, but it does nothing to the single player game then skew it in your favour slightly so I can live without cheats. The gesture was nice, the outcome was messy.

I also will say GOG told us back way back when. That only a few, new games would be regionally priced, then the whole catalogue basically went that way. One developer has a little tip-bit they keep on their servers, next EA is releasing Dead Space 3 here with us having to log in with Origin to then play the game at all.
Slippery slope fallacy I hope. I hope GOG has integrity, but as I have already said; you should never trust bankers, business heads or clowns. They all live in fantasy worlds.

It has been a headache to follow this thread at times, and I really hope the developers are proud of their game as it is now at the top of the sellers list, and I hope all their customers enjoy the game.
I also hope all this fuss does not lead to them pulling the game out of fear of us, as I expect one day I might wish to play it and I would rather get a DRM-free copy, the cheat code really is nothing to me.
Goodnight.
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: No it does not "control" you... that is twisting what was meant. You can do anything you want in the confines of how the game was designed.
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mrkgnao: I want to play the single-player treasure hunt NEA-6NW-HJ7, which is part of the game as designed. How do I do it without going online?
That not how it was designed. It was designed you be online to do so.

Again twisting...
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: Ehm, sorry what? Just accept "Victor Vran" and its multiplayer-bounding because it got a native Linux-version? You mean this really serious? I've installed the game mentioned above with no further problems using WINE. And yes: For me this IS the better alternative. I have not said this should be for all others here, but if reading back some pages within this discussion the singleplayer-part and its fully DRM-free content is mentioned. Besides the fact that most users here use also Windows instead of Linux this is an alternative. You could blame me for mentioning this one, but that is your problem not mine at all. Linux-gaming is also defined through more than native versions and that also concludes with WINE.
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ricki42: What's 'multiplayer-bounding'? I've never heard that word. All I know is that I get a complete offline single-player campaign that I can back up and install where ever I want whenever I want. None of the other stuff adds any content, so I'm not missing out of anything.
Regarding wine: of course it has it's uses, but I vastly prefer native. I would have thought that was a fairly common view amongst Linux gamers.
Sorry having a look on the clock: A little late and words gone missing. Meaning for now: The multiplayer-part is based only a centralized account-system. Don't get me wrong: This could have its own fun but it's the only way to find other players. Of course native is better, sorry when my last posting was very enraged. But I love my old games like the "Thief"-series or "System Shock 2" running through WINE perfectly without limitations. And for games running only on Windows and compatible to DirectX 9 it is attempt to install and tryout running, with the great pleasure when really functional afterwards. Besides I don't like to seperate a game into singleplayer or multiplayer.
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: No need to dig up earlier posts. The problem is only that we are talking also about the DRM-free definition and from my point of view have a little missunderstanding how deep this really goes. Yes, the singleplayer-part is exactly full DRM-free. No doubt! But I have my problems with the multiplayer, which is even more important having optional fun with friends to kill monsters and enemies per mouse-click. :-) The comparison to three monkeys is the only way I have in mind for now because in some postings there is only to read about singleplayer. But the complete product got both parts. And the design-choice for a server-based only multiplayer is questionable.
OK, this I can understand. But then don't call it DRM. The game simply does not have a feature that is very important to you, namely LAN-connected play with friends. I even agree that I wished this was still more popular today so more games supported it (even though I really don't know many people to have LAN party with, so not really an option for me). But this is personal preference. Most people nowadays want and expect to have central servers and all the social stuff, so the devs pretty much have to add that to sell at all.
But maybe you could try contacting the devs and asking if it's possible to add the kind of multiplayer you'd like. They seem to be really communicative, and asking friendly gives you a far better chance of getting what you want then just shouting 'DRM!' and boycotting.
Posted July 26, 2015
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Lodium: Well, there are both pros and cons
regarding offline multiplayer or private servers etc.
Even if you have a private server, it dont have to be you that are controlling the server/hosting.
So considering that argument, even such thing as hammachi coud be termed DRM.
If the Host decides to be a jackass there is not much you can do as a guest even if you are best friends or something.
The only way of preventing that if you host the server/lan game yourself.
Some games lets you save progress or caracter stats to carry over to prevent such hassles
but thats not all games since coding these extra features naturally cost extra money and resources.
As you're mentioning: There are both pros and cons. For the start: Hamachi is not the best idea to use. Just as a little hint: OpenVPN used through SoftEther VPN runs perfect. If I understand you correct you mean the security-issue in multiplayer-sessions. Of course this is major problem when playing with unknown people. But a LAN-session would be not really rational with complete unknown players. Therefore a VPN-connection even realized through Hamachi is a lack in the own home-network for the time activated. So from my understanding this would be only done for people you have met at least once for example via voicechat.
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throgh: No need to dig up earlier posts. The problem is only that we are talking also about the DRM-free definition and from my point of view have a little missunderstanding how deep this really goes. Yes, the singleplayer-part is exactly full DRM-free. No doubt! But I have my problems with the multiplayer, which is even more important having optional fun with friends to kill monsters and enemies per mouse-click. :-) The comparison to three monkeys is the only way I have in mind for now because in some postings there is only to read about singleplayer. But the complete product got both parts. And the design-choice for a server-based only multiplayer is questionable.
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ricki42: OK, this I can understand. But then don't call it DRM. The game simply does not have a feature that is very important to you, namely LAN-connected play with friends. I even agree that I wished this was still more popular today so more games supported it (even though I really don't know many people to have LAN party with, so not really an option for me). But this is personal preference. Most people nowadays want and expect to have central servers and all the social stuff, so the devs pretty much have to add that to sell at all.
But maybe you could try contacting the devs and asking if it's possible to add the kind of multiplayer you'd like. They seem to be really communicative, and asking friendly gives you a far better chance of getting what you want then just shouting 'DRM!' and boycotting.
Thanks: This is in the making. Of course not enraged and with wording like "DRM" and "boycott". I also understand some design-decisions but having my problems with these. In fact I'm caring a lot about this game, otherwise around denying would be really silly - because of the promise of a native Linux-version. I like the style comparable to "Van Helsing" and I like former games like "Tropico".
Post edited July 26, 2015 by throgh
Posted July 26, 2015
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Lodium: Well, there are both pros and cons
regarding offline multiplayer or private servers etc.
Even if you have a private server, it dont have to be you that are controlling the server/hosting.
So considering that argument, even such thing as hammachi coud be termed DRM.
If the Host decides to be a jackass there is not much you can do as a guest even if you are best friends or something.
The only way of preventing that if you host the server/lan game yourself.
Some games lets you save progress or caracter stats to carry over to prevent such hassles
but thats not all games since coding these extra features naturally cost extra money and resources.
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throgh: As you're mentioning: There are both pros and cons. For the start: Hamachi is not the best idea to use. Just as a little hint: OpenVPN used through SoftEther VPN runs perfect. If I understand you correct you mean the security-issue in multiplayer-sessions. Of course this is major problem when playing with unknown people. But a LAN-session would be not really rational with complete unknown players. Therefore a VPN-connection even realized through Hamachi is a lack in the own home-network for the time activated. So from my understanding this would be only done for people you have met at least once for example via voicechat.
Well, i can only give you some few examples from my own experience.
In Ragnarok online on a private server where basicly evryone knew evryone .
The host had a really bad day and decided to shut the server down.
result all players lost months of progression and whatnot.

Terraria
Same shit happened there
some host was having a really bad day and decided to shut down as a host.

OpenVPN used through SoftEther VPN does help on the security matter
but there are no such things as failproof security net on the internet.
Even paid servers have problems with it, but at least those servers let you yell at somone because you are not getting your moneys worth if somone have stolen your account.
A free account? nobody woud really care if something bad happened to your account.
Posted July 26, 2015
But the examples are also based on centralized data. Regarding this game the server just helps as mediator and manager for games and codes - from my concurrent understatement based on what I've seen and heard until now. The complete basic data is managed local. Side notation: This would also imply that I'll have to backup my Victor-character created because he has got all treasure-codes until new installation. Please correct if something is wrong or gone missing.
Posted July 26, 2015
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BKGaming: This is the way the game is designed, they are in no way controlling what you can do with said game now that you own it... you can install it on 50 PC's, you can play it fully without ever getting online, ect.
So you can install the game 50 times, and for each of those 50 times you can redeem that online code that isn't DRM? Or is that non-DRM code only redeemable a lesser number of times (such as one time only)?

If the code is only redeemable once, does that result in somehow being able to then enable all those 50 installs to each have the feature the code enables? Or do you end up with 1 install with the redeemable code, and 49 installs that must do without?



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BKGaming: This does not stop you for getting the full single player experience without it, so it does not effect the experience at all. But if you are online it can be enriched by it.
It sounds as if, unless you do the online thing, you can NEVER experience the game as you could with the redeemable code. You are limited to the more restrictive single-player experience of someone that doesn't redeem the code, and can never see how the game plays with the items gotten "earlier" by virtue of the code, unless you go online - isn't that right?

You can still get from A to B (start to end of the game), but not in the same variety of ways as you could by redeeming the code.

It's DRM that limits the single-player experience. Maybe it doesn't cripple the gameplay, but it limits the experience and also reduces replayability. It's DRM.

Contrast that with, say, Far Cry 2, which also has codes that you don't need to use to complete the single-player game - but which ARE redeemable offline, years after the "servers" are closed. They can be used any time - all 50 times, in your example, and work every time.

Does this code work that way?
Posted July 26, 2015
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mrkgnao: I want to play the single-player treasure hunt NEA-6NW-HJ7, which is part of the game as designed. How do I do it without going online?
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BKGaming: That not how it was designed. It was designed you be online to do so.

Again twisting...
I'm glad to see that we are in agreement about the facts. It's a single-player feature designed to be played online.

You seem to have no problem with that, which is fine. I believe that GOG games should have all single-player features available offline.

Do note that I am not calling this DRM. I just don't believe that GOG games should allow online-only single-player features requiring authentication.

I support your right to your opinion even if I disagree with it. I hope you will extend me the same courtesy.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by mrkgnao
Posted July 26, 2015
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Martek: So you can install the game 50 times, and for each of those 50 times you can redeem that online code that isn't DRM? Or is that non-DRM code only redeemable a lesser number of times (such as one time only)?

If the code is only redeemable once, does that result in somehow being able to then enable all those 50 installs to each have the feature the code enables? Or do you end up with 1 install with the redeemable code, and 49 installs that must do without?
It can only be used once like all codes that use this online feature... that how it was designed. But you can obtain said content without it by playing the game. All it is is a community type feature so you can share codes with people and have those codes effect there game in a none significant way, hence why it's an online feature.

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Martek: It sounds as if, unless you do the online thing, you can NEVER experience the game as you could with the redeemable code. You are limited to the more restrictive single-player experience of someone that doesn't redeem the code, and can never see how the game plays with the items gotten "earlier" by virtue of the code, unless you go online - isn't that right?

You can still get from A to B (start to end of the game), but not in the same variety of ways as you could by redeeming the code.

It's DRM that limits the single-player experience. Maybe it doesn't cripple the gameplay, but it limits the experience and also reduces replayability. It's DRM.

Contrast that with, say, Far Cry 2, which also has codes that you don't need to use to complete the single-player game - but which ARE redeemable offline, years after the "servers" are closed. They can be used any time - all 50 times, in your example, and work every time.

Does this code work that way?
Yes you can by playing. The game is designed with item drops. You get drops by playing. All the codes do is allow you to get the drops sooner by entering the code. Has no effect on the how you get from A to Z which is going to be pretty much the exact same experience regardless of using the codes or not.

Lets not make this out to be more significant than it is... you don't like the design choice, fine... but somehow people believe that suddenly makes that design choice they dislike DRM. Far from the truth.


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mrkgnao: I'm glad to see that we are in agreement about the facts. It's a single-player feature designed to be played online.

You seem to have no problem with that, which is fine. I believe that GOG games should have all single-player features available offline.

Do note that I am not calling this DRM. I just don't believe that GOG games should allow online-only single-player features.

I support your right to your opinion even if I disagree with it. I hope you will extend me the same courtesy.
No, more like it's an online feature designed to interact with your single player experience... but yes I support your right to your opinion. Have a nice day.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by BKGaming
Posted July 26, 2015
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mrkgnao: I'm glad to see that we are in agreement about the facts. It's a single-player feature designed to be played online.

You seem to have no problem with that, which is fine. I believe that GOG games should have all single-player features available offline.

Do note that I am not calling this DRM. I just don't believe that GOG games should allow online-only single-player features.

I support your right to your opinion even if I disagree with it. I hope you will extend me the same courtesy.
I guess this is a question of definition, so bear with me, but I would not consider the treasure hunts at their core a single-player feature. Just because you can solo them, doesn't make them part of the single-player campaign. You can play them as a single player (which is why I say it depends on what exactly you mean by single-player) but they are clearly designed as a social experience with friends sharing codes and treasure hunting together. I appreciate that it's possible to play the hunt offline so that folks with poor connection can still participate. But that doesn't make the treasure hunts part of the single-player campaign. It doesn't add any content, you'll encounter all the opponents, locations, and loot that appears in the treasure hunts in the offline campaign, and you can replay all dungeons in the single-player as many times as you want if you feel like hunting a particular enemy in a specific spot. The only thing that treasure hunts add (as far as I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong) is the social aspect of being part of the event, of sharing, playing and discussing with your friends.
If that is a deal-breaker for you, fair enough. But I wouldn't want to see the game banned from GOG just because it contains multiplayer features I'm not personally interested in.
Posted July 26, 2015
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throgh: But the examples are also based on centralized data. Regarding this game the server just helps as mediator and manager for games and codes - from my concurrent understatement based on what I've seen and heard until now. The complete basic data is managed local. Side notation: This would also imply that I'll have to backup my Victor-character created because he has got all treasure-codes until new installation. Please correct if something is wrong or gone missing.
Is Terraria based on centralized data?
I thougth it was based on lan, direct ip, port forwarding at least initially.
I know they have Multiplayer servers now
http://terraria.org/news
But its still possible to play via lan still?
Post edited July 26, 2015 by Lodium
Posted July 26, 2015
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mrkgnao: I'm glad to see that we are in agreement about the facts. It's a single-player feature designed to be played online.
Just because it can be soloed it does not mean it is a single player feature and contrary to the belief of some people here single player is not synonym to offline player. The feature is strictly meant to be played online so people can share the rewards of their adventures with others. The developers have not created a database of 12 digit codes inside the game files just for anybody to access any kind of weapon at any time. You insistence that this is a single player feature just because it can be soloed is similar to arguing that an instanced dungeon in a game made for 5 people is also a singleplayer feature because it can be soloed at higher levels.

As for the rest of your argument: I think it is pretty clear that some people here, including you, are not keen on this social (hence why multiplayer and online) feature of the game and are not willing to buy it because of that. To each their own.

But how about those mute arguments cease and let the people who actually want to talk about the game post here, not those who have no interest in it because of some obscure, unimportant feature that does nothing to an offline experience?
Posted July 26, 2015
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HijacK: But how about those mute arguments cease and let the people who actually want to talk about the game post here, not those who have no interest in it because of some obscure, unimportant feature that does nothing to an offline experience?
I think you mean "moot". If only they were mute. :P

Either way, I suspect those who actually enjoy the game have long given up on this thread and spend their time playing instead. For what it's worth, it seems to be selling well, despite all the noise, and it received some very positive reviews. ( By which I mean actual reviews, from people who bought and played the game. )
Posted July 26, 2015
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ricki42: I guess this is a question of definition, so bear with me, but I would not consider the treasure hunts at their core a single-player feature. Just because you can solo them, doesn't make them part of the single-player campaign. You can play them as a single player (which is why I say it depends on what exactly you mean by single-player) but they are clearly designed as a social experience with friends sharing codes and treasure hunting together. I appreciate that it's possible to play the hunt offline so that folks with poor connection can still participate. But that doesn't make the treasure hunts part of the single-player campaign. It doesn't add any content, you'll encounter all the opponents, locations, and loot that appears in the treasure hunts in the offline campaign, and you can replay all dungeons in the single-player as many times as you want if you feel like hunting a particular enemy in a specific spot. The only thing that treasure hunts add (as far as I can tell, correct me if I'm wrong) is the social aspect of being part of the event, of sharing, playing and discussing with your friends.
If that is a deal-breaker for you, fair enough. But I wouldn't want to see the game banned from GOG just because it contains multiplayer features I'm not personally interested in.
You make a fair point. Here is how Haemimont describes the feature.

"From Gabriel Dobrev, CEO, Director, and Founder of Haemimontgames:
"Hello Michael,
Thank you for the opportunity to provide an official answer to this question.

Treasure Hunts and Bounties do not unlock new areas. In order to complete them the player must visit a number of areas which she have gained access to while playing the game. They provide new and interesting challenges to players that have already completed the story and unlocked all areas in the game.

Each Treasure Hunt and Bounty has a Treasure Key which you can share with your friends or the community so they can redeem exactly the same item.Sharing is optional and you don't get any in-game benefits from sharing. "

I have highlighted the phrases that lead me to see this as no less a single-player feature than a multiplayer one.
Post edited July 26, 2015 by mrkgnao
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This is my favourite topic
Community
General discussionRelease: Victor Vran(1056 posts)(1056 posts)
(1056 posts)