I indeed forgot and I don't read back much on phone. I was fairly certain about Joe already from the moment he didn't know how to react to the me, nmillar, ZFR stuff, then by how he led the seemed what way to try to direct attention, trying to doubt confirmed players and the claim wasn't too convincing either. This only seals it. Vote JoeSapphire. My reads were crap.

*how lost what way to direct his attention he seemed*

We are also very interested in Joe's response - for reasons.

Also Joe, what is your modifier?

Although I voted I don't want to rush things either and want to hear from people (mainly Joe and dedo) so don't be hasty and let people speak first.

Agreed. We may be noobs, but we do not often leap to a reaction. I did ask more technical questions of our host overnight though, and am now waiting to tighten the rope.

so if you found that he didn't have a gun what would you have concluded?

no I was excited about it earlier this morning but now I just think it's nmillar being dumb. He must be genuinely a gunsmith because of the backup so yeah

I'm struggling to respond to this in a way that doesn't make me sound like I'm guilty of something. It makes sense to moderate the protective role with a blocking element. And there's a roleblocker too.


none that I know of,

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dedo's claims a made up modifier that seems fun on paper, there's something compelling about it but compared to everything else we've got it looks not good. Do bodyguards usually carry guns for gunsmiths? I don't know if that makes the bodyguard claim more believable or less believeable.
Catte claims doc with an early breadcrumb. I want to say there aren't two protective roles, but the breadcrumb and the observed night visit is hard to disbelieve.

bedtime bump

Thank you, Joe.

"Some mods have also designed games with a Backup existing without the primary role present, which typically serves to sow seeds of misdirection about the setup for the individual player and sometimes the town if that player dies. A Backup in a game without a primary role present is essentially a Named Townie. ...

It is possible for a Backup role to exist without the corresponding original role existing, in which case it is impossible for the Backup Role to "turn on"; it will effectively act as a Vanilla role in most respects, but Rolecops will be able to see that it exists" - quoted from Mafiascum Wiki

Joe, you've been a mod/host. What do you think of this?


"...a Gunsmith gets guilties on all Mafia (except Traitors and Doctors), Cops, Vigilantes, Gunsmiths, Role Cops, Vanilla Cops, Vengefuls, Detectives, Neapolitans, Backups of roles with guns and JoATs that have any of these listed powers. ... Serial Killers and Doctors do not have guns." - quoted from Mafiascum Wiki

Bodyguard is not specified.


"As a protective role, Bodyguard is essentially a weakened Doctor. ... As always, including multiple protective roles in the game can lead to broken role combinations. Doctor+Bodyguard can lead to circular protections ..." - quoted from Mafiascum Wiki

You are correct, there should be only one.

What conclusion do these points lead one to?

Please let us not rush to a fast vote. There is a purpose to this.

If he didn't have a gun, and he claimed backup gunsmith, then I would have concluded that he was lying.

I believe Joe was referring to GH, the PGO.


Just a quick check-in. We'll be on and off for the next couple hours as we try to return to a more 'normal' schedule.

Same scenario. It would have disproved his claim if Gym did not have a gun.

One would think so. We're not quite sure where Joe was going with this.

BTW, after your bakery comment we almost asked if you were having scones with Ol' Bessie, but as several players here were with you in that game we didn't want to clue them in. However, you don't even WANT to know where all your Pump 5 sent us looking! LOL!

It's not made up but I do hear where you're coming from as initially I also thought Trent made it up.


2 or 3 games ago I (personally) lost a game where I had successfully blocked a killer during the night and let them go because I assume fair and balanced setup. I don't mean this as a jab to Trent as he is a good friend of mine but can you guess who came up with that setup and modded the game back then?

We noted Trent pulled out some of the old and odd combo roles. Thanks for your thoughts on the other game as well.


Can you enlighten us on your thinking on this now? We assumed you did not want to give unclaimed ideas so did not ask you back then.