Just found an interesting article from YouGov Germany, which polled opinions among Germans on the EU regarding Brexit and the future of the EU. 77% of Germans believe that (versus 13% of Germans, I assume 10% no answer) the EU will continue even without Britain, while 56% believe that other countries will also leave the EU (versus 32% not believing it).

Of particular interest is the question regarding agreement with the statement "It's unfair that the older generation in particular - the ones that don't have to live with the decision for as long - decided in favour of Brexit, while the younger generations wanted to stay."

Whereas in Britain there's a steady decline in agreement with this statement with progressing age, there's a sudden surge in agreement (74% versus 19%) with this statement among the 60+ age bracket.

https://yougov.de/news/2016/06/29/viele-deutsche-sehen-brexit-entscheidung-kritisch/

I always enjoy your optimistic rationality and humanity. But you are exceptional.
And what you are calling chaos is not about predictability.

What jamys was getting at were concepts of predictability, market discounts, perfect information, etc... my point to him is the eternal answer to central planning: That the information problem exists. That risk is inherent in life. That equality of outcomes is humanly impossible.

What you are calling chaotic is basically invasion, strife and geopolitical struggle. And of course we are in a transitional period. The fundamental reason that the EU is breaking up is extremely simple: the Cold War is over. This only appears stupid if one looks superficially at the EU expansion after 91 and the Euro as the EU's zenith. Under the surface however it was the all so human overexpansion, victory bringing diviision plot. Not only did the EU see the collapse of the USSR as its opportunity to rivalize with the US and end the emerging monopolar globalized order, but the US was more than happy to believe it no longer needed to be World Police and handover responsibility without concern for actual capabilities or care for consequences.


Hmmm... so you are also a fan of Hayek et al?

Dear lord, the hypocrisy is overwhelming. It's like watching someone tap dance around laser beams.

Look, just say what you would say if a white person - or as you like to call us, vile barely human pieces of dog shit - did the same thing.

Right now, you're being the textbook definition of racist.

racist
ˈreɪsɪst

noun
1. a person who believes that a particular race is superior to another.
"I had a fear of being called a racist"

adjective
1. having or showing the belief that a particular race is superior to another.
"we are investigating complaints about racist abuse at a newsagents"

Q.E.D., the Roma over the white scum.

You might want to reconsider. The youth of LONDON mostly voted for Bremain, not every youth in Britain indiscriminately. And everyone knows the social integrity and ethnic-composition of the masses residing in London city. Facts, please!

Read it again, you hypocritical cunt.

I pointed out that statistically, Roma are more prone to engage in crime and begging. I pointed that statistically, Roma are less likely to complete school education. That report proves those statistics. It does not mean that Roma are somehow genetically or culturally inferior, and seriously, fuck you for putting words in my mouth.

Unlike you, you arrogant twat, I'm prepared to admit that I don't know the reasons for this and that it is a topic I'd love to know more about. I suspect that it is related to the way that Eastern European states have discrminated against Roma in the past. Extreme poverty tends to be a strong driver of crime and poor education.

So how about you go stick your head in a bucket, fuck off, and leave the debate to those of us with an IQ above 50.

Cunt.
Nope. The age divide is very well established, not just regionally. The fact that London generally has a younger population on average skews it towards that result, but not critically so.

By the way, the "ethnic" composition that you're referring to is largely irrelevant, because the immigrants weren't allowed to vote.

No, no, YOU read my post again. All I said was that you should say the same thing you would've said if all that was made by white people. I never said you didn't give them the benefit of the doubt, just pointed out you'd never have done the same to white scum.

Because according to your manifesto in another thread, you DO consider white people to be inferior.

As for you allegations of discrimination - must be the white scum's fault at ALL COSTS - I don't know the situation in yiour country, but here, they are sponsored by local governments which give them free land, water & electricity, all paid by our tax euros & on top of that they earn more government money never working a day in their lives than most any other people earn after paying taxes their entire lives.

Yes, the white man being evil again.

Lastly, there's no need to be rude, just because I made you look into a part of yourself that you might not like.

Racism is racism, even if it's towards white people. And you may very well be the most racist person on this site. Call me any names you want, but I'm not the one to blame for your racism. Sorry.

How so? I read that some outsiders voted too, some of them even for Brexit and later regret it! Or were those faked news?

There were proposals to reduce the power of money, for example Basel III capital requirements were supposed to reduce banking leverage. But it's voluntary and the timeframe gets shifted constantly. And Occupy Wallstreet was a movement in this direction but somehow didn't catch on with the people in the US.

So far not much changed. And anyway we would all need to work together to make it work. Instead of taking back control locally which doesn't work against money, what you need to do in a globalized economy is much less clear - work together maybe? It's as if national boundaries almost do not exist anymore at least for money.

Long thread. Because the word was capitalized in articles and because it was featured on the CNN feed on TV in the break rooms at work, I thought Brexit was the name of a politician. After googling "what is Brexit?" I'm a little more enlightened. It seems that the UK's decision to leave the EU was not easy and a very close vote. Only time will tell if it was a good one.

Jim

Why this entitled view?

If we decide who has more right to vote, don't the people that already contribute LONGER to the country have more say then people who contribute LESS to the country because of they did not contribute as long?

I also think it is just a not very well thought out proposal.

With NATO I thought we already have kind of a common military headquarter and the single state armies have to work already together with others anyway because of efficiency reasons. They train together, they have missions together (like rescueing refugees from the Mediterrean Sea, or scaring Russia in Eastern Europe), they are part of a common foreign policy.

Sometimes the jumble of (in)competences in EU states militaries is a laughing stock for a real military like the US one.

On the other hand there used to be notable exceptions. French intervention in Mali, English bombing of Libya, where single EU states did or didn't do some military action.

If you ask me, it should surely stay like this but as close as possible collaboration is the key. For example shared military investments in new systems is very important. Germany put billions into the development of a drone and it failed spectacularly. There EU states should work together much more closely.

An EU army is probably the last thing you want to do after you have done everything else. Until then NATO should be the alliance of choice.

Pffft, details.

Next you're probably say that older people have lived through more, have seen how it was before & after the EU & that they're probably voting not for their own sakes, but for the sake of their grandchildren, the exact same people who want their grandparents to die already so they don't ruin our lives, OMG grandpa! Just die, you old bigot! You're like, so old, what do you know?

#MostTolerantGeneration

You know, I won't comment much how I see that as a complete mirseading of Basel III.

I will say that the whole dynamic of rulers leveraging bankers and then controlling them and eventually making scapegoats out of them is a huge part of how anti-semitism became what it became in Europe, culminating in you know what, you know where, by you know whom.

It would be super nice if everyone started looking a little bit under the surface at what the money is doing, rather than just its origin and end points. Follow the money was not a freaking literal expression. The meaning is to see who benefits from the dynamics.

Sure, in a bribe or extorsion follow the money shows the victim and criminal very directly, but with inflation and liquidity at the macro level the situation is a tad more complex.

Regardless of which, anti capitalism is the gift that keeps on giving, and that is the greatest tragedy of our times. Ignore the confusion / conflation over capital as the fuel of innovation and capital as the rentseeking of established powers. The tragedy is the myopia over the billions of humans that were risen out of absolute poverty by globalization and capitalism in the past 50 years. And how we are going to throw that away because of entitlement and arrogance and anger and fear.

You're right, the cold was is over. However, recently the number of wars close to us increased again. Wouldn't this be bad timing for Britain to break off at such a time with Turkey, Russia, ISIS, ...?

Why do people become so nationalistic again? That's what I ask myself. Rationally it cannot be true that my nation is better than all others for more than one nation. So not much reason to feel special about your country - it probably is just average.

Cultural fear/xenophobia? Where we just had abolished the borders? Where people marry happily between counries? Where the Internet mixes cultures wildly together and shortens all distances? Where you live in Belgium, speak English, watch the Superbowl and cook Chinese food? Or with globalization where your company might send you to Brasil or South-Asia for a couple of years?

The problem is that nationalism tries to lock you in. Basically the deal between English nationalists and French nationalist would for example be: We respect you as long as you don't send any of your guys over and vice versa. It means real borders and restricted movement, except maybe for the top talents that get exceptions. I feel like my freedom gets smaller and smaller by building more and more fences and I'm from a country that is relatively big and relatively wealthy. Just imagine you are from a poor, small country and have nowhere to go. Life would maybe suck a bit? Of course I'm not for everyone can just go everywhere but for compromise somewhere in the middle and nationalism doesn't help there really is my impression. In order to "defend" your country it must become a prison. Does this feel right?

You are 35 right? I am younger then you. Just that I had a little bit more gratitude for what my grandparents / parents / older generation done for my generation.

When I am younger my family is quite poor and in debts. Still my parents eke out a living and spend most of their money on their children education. I still remember there are a few times we are short of a few pennies to buy a meal (for one) to share among the whole family.

Thanks to my education I don't have much money problems as long I don't be a spendthrift. But I do not forgot what bring me to where I am.