immi101: Cameron is just weaseling out of any decision. He should have brought a sign saying: "This is for the next leader to decide".

and Scotland is not amused.

Dalthnock: Those are very good points, actually.

When you say " when the *European House* stays empty afterwards, some might argue there's no need for this house, this ideal no more", I too believe differently. Like you, I believe we need a united Europe, just not the way it is now. Its current state is self-serving only to a few select few, like Junker & his cronies.

You are absolutely right this is probably the longest period without war that Europe has gone through. For that, the EU with all its iterations that kept changing throughout the years was very well worth it. But this peace period is about to end, unless a lot of pressure is released.

I believe the UK leaving the EU will release enough pressure for everyone to keep its cool for a bit longer. Obviously we are entering now the "what if" field of discussion, but look at what's happening with a critical eye.

There are reports of attacks and/or discrimination against my people in the UK. This is unprecedented. We have always had good relations with England & the UK, many of them always spend their vacations here, and there's always been Portuguese people in the UK, always welcome.

This whole migration madness has raised animosities to such an extent that Portuguese people are being harassed right now. You can clearly see this is not a problem of race or colour, like many would have you believe. There's been too much pressure for multiculturalism, way too fast & this is reaching the breaking point, regardless of what the idealists said.

I was expecting this backlash, but not this fast, or this strong. I do not want this to happen. I do not want to see the extreme right taking hold of Europe as it is now.

Everyone really needs to back down from their positions & have a good look at the state of the whole world right now. Multiculturalism can't be forced, there cannot be two or more sets of laws for different people & we cannot favour one over the other, which is what's happening right now.

The plans failed. All of them. Back down, make other plans. Rebuild Europe. Plan for better migration. Yes, it will take years, decades. But it's the only way. We can't keep digging this hole!

Sorry for veering off in this tangent, but this is one reason I wanted to see UK flipping the bird to the EU. To weaken all these mad policies, to release some pressure. I believe all these things are interconnected. The longer this went on - and goes on, it's still going - the worse the backlash will be.

Reality cannot be contained.

Becoming even more divisive over the UK's exit is destructive. The right path, the constructive path, is for us all to accept it happened, have a good look at everything else that is happening & change the way things are being done. Because this is obviously not working. At all.

tinyE: Tauto wants to report me for use of "foul language".

No shit? :P

petitmal: Seems to me we have more in common than I expected at first sight.

The pressure, the problems arising from the concept of *multiculturalism*. You have a point when you say some of the pressure now temporarily may have been relieved. So there is time to stand down and put things in perspective.

The concept of multiculturalism is intrinsically flawed. Cultures in a sense are walls, dividing us. The concept of multiculturalism completely ignores that fact. So, unless we can invent new parameters...

It strikes me we both feel discontent at what is going on in the U.K. right now: the animosity fuelling the outcome of the poll, now lashes out for real and foreigners do not feel safe anymore. It is very disturbing.

Last but not least: I concur: *We need to have a good look at everything else that is happening & change the way things are being done*.

Semper veritas...

Regals: Eram ... I am not far off from sending you letter
might want to play nice ;D

Dalthnock: We all have more in common than we expect. But we can only know that if we leave our comfort zones.

I am going to rant a bit more now, slightly unrelated to our conversation.

This animosity against my people shook me not because it's my people, but because I know our history, our relationships throughout the years have never been this antagonistic. Maybe there was some bickering during the time of Europe's colonisation & expansion, but if so, that was during ONE particular period, due to obvious reasons. We always got along fine. UNTIL NOW.

Obviously I want migration, imi & emi. The history of mankind is one of constant migration, from & to everywhere.

Still, I have been accused of being a white supremacist in this forum simply because I love European culture, with all its different subcultures, by people who obviously feel uncomfortable with the idea that anything made by whites should be celebrated.

Migration MUST exist, SHOULD be encouraged, but it should also happen naturally. Apart from a couple of episodes in mankind's history, this has mostly been the case.

I want black people in Europe, I want white people in Africa, I want Asians everywhere, but there must be some control.

"Come get your free shit" is not control, it's not a plan, it's utter, demented, lunacy & we must speak up against the governments proposing this without fear of being labelled a racist, before the whole thing becomes unbearable.

There are now NEW divisions where there used to be none. How is this an improved Europe? How is this the right path? It is madness, and it must stop.

Regals: Not everyone....

Ever heard of Bilderberg Group?
You know what happen right before the "vote"?

Check the wiki page on them even... don't take my word.

People use to say it was crazy and tinfoil hat to think goverment was listening in on phone calls.

Dalthnock: I don't know if my previous post made any sense, I'm pretty shaken up to see new divisions where there used to be none.

This is all backfiring. There is now more racism, bigotry & xenophobia than ever before. The dream of a world without borders has failed spectacularly.

tinyE: I know something you don't know. :P

Lodium: ... I think the solution lies more in that you have build up the weak economies so that all have the same economic power.
And that will take a wery long time.

Lodium: I agree that migration, imigration and emigration must exist but there needs to be some kind of balance.
I really dont think forcing multicultarism on people is the solution.
This has to happen gradually.

If its true that even portugese gets harrased and attacked i guess Europe was more fucked up than i belived and in that case its not about racism at all.

I think the solution lies more in that you have build up the weak economies so that all have the same economic power.
And that will take a wery long time.

Bookwyrm627: You are not left handed?