Ive tried just about any of them and they are freaking insanely hard.

I create a party that is balanced and I really cant get further than 3 hrs into the game

Games Ive tried but failed at

Metal Dungeon-
Insane difficulty with puzzles. They should have removed the puzzles from the game.

Etrian Odyssey 1-
The game doesnt have an ending and the boss fights are insane.

Wizardry Forsaken Lands-
The game is unbelievable.

Dark Spire-
Insane! Game is not possible after half an hours worth.

Wizardry 8-
The game is insanely hard.

Heroes of a Broken Land-
Game is insane! Enemies levels dont scale to parties.

On the bright side they are my most fun games to play. However they are also the most difficult rpgs out there. Double edge sword.

Can anyone confirm the dungeon crawlers arent roguelikes and you are supposed to see how long you can get before you start over.

If that is the case then that would make sense.

Aside Etrian Odyssey, I haven't played any of the other games, so I can't exactly comment on their difficulty. One of the problems with Etrian Odyssey, is that it requires grinding, which is definitely not everyone's cup of tea.

A turn-based dungeon crawler that I didn't find particularly hard was Paper Sorcerer, which is sold here, by the way.

Actually Paper Sorcerer doesn't have any grinding; Specifically once you beat a monster/encounter in a room, it's gone. That seems like a good approach. There's optional dungeons you can explore but those aren't required for the game (I think, haven't actually beaten it myself).

There are actually a few areas in the game that do feature random encounters; among them, the bonus dungeons.
I didn't say anything about Paper Sorcerer having any grinding, though; that was reserved for Etrian Odyssey.

It sucks because the ones that are really good and that I like are the ones that cause most trouble

There's a cyberpunk Wiz Clone called Tokyo Abyss or something.

Class of heroes for PSP

Class of heroes 2 for PSP

Elminage for PSP

and a number of others that are probably fun. However those games are fun if its within the 20 hour range. Anything else better make sure its got a damn good story. Otherwise its for queers.

Legend of Grimrock is playable with almost any party. LoG2 as well. Eye of the Beholder are all ok, especially after you've been murdered a few times by the spiders and know their appearance and patterns. That's usually the time I'm out of food and low on health is when I first make it to the spider levels in EotB.

You just have to know the game mechanics well. They might be tricky, but they are super gratifying.

I don't play such games in general, but I finished Eye of the Beholder 1 and 2 when I was about 9, so they couldn't have been too hard . Maybe try those ?

You listed Wiz8 as extremely hard, which shouldn't normally be true. There are certain things that can be a problem early on, but most of the difficulty seems to come from the fact that its generation of game approaches many things (especially character stat-related) differently than modern ones do.

Grimrock is fairly straightforward, provided each character puts skills points towards no more than two skills. Spreading out skill points too much makes the game difficult. Otherwise it doesn't matter too much how you build your party.

Might I recommend Dungeon Hack? I'm not sure if it's commercially sold anywhere, but the game's difficulty settings are very customizable.

Never tried that one, but looks interesting. Any legal way to get it still? :\

yeppers

http://www.amazon.com/Strategic-Simulations-Inc-Dungeon-Hack/dp/B000MENKMY/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1421713984&sr=8-1&keywords=dungeon+hack

Might and Magic 1-5 are pretty ok.

1 can be hard at times, but you just start from an inn and go find an easier area.

I remember this one, it came with my 6 games in 1, with a code wheel and games for the DOS era while they were still milking it before it was dead and i was dirt poor... However my opinion of the game was lack luster, namely i got bored fairly quickly.

Honestly Legend of Grimrock is better, although Dungeon Hack does have a certain level of rouge elements, namely being more random since you can seed it (and thus with appropriate options, recreate any dungeon easily).

So which one of those games is completable in 20 hours? I dont play games that are long. I already have a job, I dont need another one, heh