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RChu1982: I would be lacking in a Locks and Traps character, and no Berserking or Backstabbing. There would be nobody with a bonus to Communication, or ability to make Tripleshot Crossbows. The former doesn't matter too much, as you can make infinite money from Alchemy; With the latter, you can get good bows and crossbows from Crock and Ferro.
Bloodlust gives you berserking for a while, not to mention an extra attack. Later in the game, you don't nee bloodlust to be effetive.

For Communication, try doing an Int/Sen build with someone; this also works for Artifacts. Also, put points into the skill at level up. I'm not 100% sure, but it might be possible to train the skill by failing to steal from Lord Braffit and then being friendly. (I would save first, and only save if he's friendly rather than neutral at the time. Also, this might not work so well with other NPCs, as some of them will attack if you fail to steal.)

(I want to try an Int/Sen Bishop at some point; this build will probably be able to get Artifacts up really high.)

Edit: Also worth noting that there's a mace that boosts Communication, and it's one you'll want to give to someone who's dual wielding, if any of your characters are and can use it.
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RChu1982: The 2 Bishops will have Slings for range (their only available ranged skill). They will max Intelligence and Speed first, then Strength and Senses.

What do you think?
I like that Bishop setup, but when I'm using two characters of the same class, I prefer to not duplicate the setup twice. Maybe try Strength (more physical damage and carrying capacity), Piety (more Divinity and realm growth), or Senses (fast Artifacts/Communication/Psinics growth, and boosts initiative like Speed).
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RChu1982: 1. The Fighter up front will be dual-wielding (Sword, and Mace and Flail).
I prefer to just do 2 maces. Hammer and The Mauler both grant a skill bonus that boosts both hands, and Diamond Eyes will benefit from it as well.
Post edited September 16, 2023 by dtgreene
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RChu1982: 4. The Ranger on the other flank will have a Sword and Shield. Will work on Scouting.
I think you have too many sword users, and all the good swords are either rare or unique, so you won't be able to use them all effectively.

I'd consider maybe a spear for the Ranger's melee weapon. The good spears are buyable and boost the skill. You could also use maces, but they take longer to get good (only 1 Diamond Eyes, and usually no The Mauler until Ferro).

Also, you neglected to mention your choice of race. For many of these characters, I like Dracon for the breath attack. You might also consider Mook for the Giant Sword, of which there are 4 in the game, which can help with the issue of having enough swords. (Note that Rogues can't use Giant Swords.)
I'm sorry, my fault. I neglected to mention that I love Humans, because they enjoy a start of 45 to all attributes. From there, points are deducted to meet profession requirements.
A Fighter can get a *Light Sword* and Diamond Eyes.
A Rogue can start with Bloodlust and Thieves' Dagger (cursed), then switch later to a *Light Sword* and Stiletto (uncursed).
The Valkyrie I am unfamiliar with; I can just give her the best polearm/spear she can get, and hope for the best (she can cheat death, so less of a need for a shield).
As a Human Ranger, I can't use the Giant's Sword; I hear that it drains stamina like crazy. He can still get a *Light Sword* and *Light Shield* from Jan-Ette.
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RChu1982: I'm sorry, my fault. I neglected to mention that I love Humans, because they enjoy a start of 45 to all attributes. From there, points are deducted to meet profession requirements.
A Fighter can get a *Light Sword* and Diamond Eyes.
A Rogue can start with Bloodlust and Thieves' Dagger (cursed), then switch later to a *Light Sword* and Stiletto (uncursed).
The Valkyrie I am unfamiliar with; I can just give her the best polearm/spear she can get, and hope for the best (she can cheat death, so less of a need for a shield).
As a Human Ranger, I can't use the Giant's Sword; I hear that it drains stamina like crazy. He can still get a *Light Sword* and *Light Shield* from Jan-Ette.
Humans are not that good of a choice for Fighters because they aren't exceptional at the important stats, and too many of their stat points go to stats you probably don't care about on the Fighter.

Jan-Ette can't drop the *Light Sword*. She can drop the *Light Shield*, but a Fighter really doesn't need it. In fact, with Fighter, Valkyrie, and Lord, I often find it best not to wear heavy armor simply because such characters don't have any problems surviving, and the heavy armor is extra weight. In fact, I find myself prefering Robes of Rejuvenation, even though you can get even better SP regen with the Infinity Helm (which is worth the weight). and a Fighter doesn't care about the SP regen anyway (but does care about the HP/Stamina regen you get from these items).

By the way, if you ever play Proving Grounds of the Mad Overlord (Wizardry 1), or any of the other early wizardry games (2, 3, and 5), Humans are not a good choice there. They have the same lack of an exceptionally good stat, but they have terrible Piety for some reason, and as a result have the lowest stat sum.
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RChu1982: The Valkyrie I am unfamiliar with; I can just give her the best polearm/spear she can get, and hope for the best (she can cheat death, so less of a need for a shield).
With Polearms, here are the good ones to look for:
* Awl Pike: A significant upgrade over the starting Spear. Can be found by the chest with the Piercing Pipes, and also sole by Antone. For a Fighter, this is the strongest polearm they get for quite a while.
* Lance: Buy from Antone. This weapon does really nice damage, albeit with a hefty initiative penalty. (Don't worry about number of swings early on; it's a while before this matters, and you won't get the second attack any later even with that initiative penalty.) It also has 4% kill, which is rare at this point in the game. For whatever reason, Fighters can't use it.
* Stun Rod: Can paralyze, boosts Polearm skill, and still does good damage. You could use these until the end of the game. These are a bit like that Mindblast Rod, but with more typical equipment requirements, and no spell attached. Buy these from Sadok; they're not that expensive, and I think they might even be marked as always in his shop inventory.
* Dread Spear is a bit stronger, and provides an initiative *bonus*. It's not as strong as other endgame weapons, but it's buyable (and I believe always in the shopkeeper's inventory), available earlier than other endgame weapons, and still strong enough to be useful endgame. Once you're at the point where getting more than one swing is feasible, this weapon becomes a worthwhile option. Buy from Bela, although it is expensive.

Because you can buy all the good polearms, it's definitely reasonable to give them to multiple characters, unlike other weapon types. The only other weapon type like this is Maces.
Post edited September 16, 2023 by dtgreene
Perhaps you're right about Humans. It's just that, unlike spells (which are buyable in shops, and findable), and skills (which can be trained), attribute points are finite. I prefer to have the highest stat sum (every attribute does something, even "useless" ones like Intelligence help skills rise faster).

This time, I will completely ignore Piety, as Element and Soul Shields will be cast (quickly) by the Bishops, who are working on Speed for Snakespeed. The non-casters don't need this, and the Bishops will have a healthy mana pool with their spells picked, bought, and found.

Also, Vitality will be ignored, as the Fighter, Valkyrie, and Ranger will have good hit points at base, the Rogue has Stealth, and the Bishops get diminishing returns from points spent in it (you would think that Vitality would benefit those that need hit points the same as the others, but no, the formula favors casters the least).

For all intents and purposes, the Valkyrie and Ranger will be treated like the Fighter and Rogue, as non-casters (they *do* start out that way, until level 5). Thus, Intelligence, Piety, and Vitality will be ignored for them. The Valkyrie's magic is Divinity, as such, she can do fine without Powercast. The Ranger's magic is Alchemy, which has plenty of use without Powercast. The Valkyrie could even be my Soul Shield caster, and the Ranger my Element Shield caster, while the Bishops pummel the enemy with magic.

The Fighter and Rogue up front make a great team. Neither of them have to worry about magic, as such, they level the fastest in the game, and can focus on Berserking and Backstabbing for heavy melee damage. The Rogue, once Stealth gets good, will pass most of the damage onto the Fighter, who has the best hit points in the game (neither need a shield, for different reasons). Dual-wielding makes the most sense for these two, as opposed to polearms (the Rogue can't use these, and the Fighter can make the most use out of his Berserk ability).

On one of the flanks, the Valkyrie can still hit enemies in front of the party, and on her flank. She gets a bonus to Polearms, so I don't see any reason to use another weapon type (her ability to cheat death makes a shield less important).

The Ranger is what is debatable. His melee skill is only mediocre (he excels at ranged combat). It would be nice to give him a Polearm, like the Valkyrie, so he can hit enemies in front of the party, and on his flank. Or I could go *Light Sword* (Buccaneer Ghosts), and *Light Shield* (Jan-Ette).

As said before, I was disappointed with the Vampire Chain (no status effects, and the stamina-healing I didn't even notice). Therefore, the two Bishops are going with Quarterstaves to train for the Staff of Doom (one can be farmed from a Rapax Corpse).
Post edited September 16, 2023 by RChu1982
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RChu1982: Also, Vitality will be ignored, as the Fighter, Valkyrie, and Ranger will have good hit points at base, the Rogue has Stealth, and the Bishops get diminishing returns from points spent in it (you would think that Vitality would benefit those that need hit points the same as the others, but no, the formula favors casters the least).
Vitality has a bigger effect if the character is a dwarf. A dwarf's damage resistance depends on Vitality, so a Dwarf with 60 Vitality will have 6% resistance, as opposed to only 4% for one with only 40. (With that said, the starting 60 Vitality should be enough for most uses of this race.)

Some other races get Vitality dependent resistances, as well.

Also, worth noting that this is not the case in other Wizardry games. In fact, it can be worth maxing out Vitality in, say, Wizardry 1, so that your Mage doesn't get killed easily by enemy breath attacks or spells. But, then again, you might want Agility instead so you can usually go first. (Intelligence only affects the chance of learning spells at level up, so it becomes unimportant if you get to high levels.)
Anyway, it tool a while for me to get my Human Bishop to level 8 (one group fell just a bit short of giving enough XP, and the game just didn't want to spawn enemies until I intentionally rested in the open).

So, time to go adventuring out of Arnika now that I have X-Ray.

(Also sold a lot of stuff, including armor, weapons, and arrows (which I'm not using this run, though I am using stones, unlike last time).
Congratulations on reaching Arnika with your party. You and I, dtgreene, managed to make this MDP 20 pages long. Thank you for all of your imput. This thread was created October 16, 2021. As far as I'm concerned, this thread is closed.

Look to my new thread for a more bad-a$$ party.
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RChu1982: Congratulations on reaching Arnika with your party. You and I, dtgreene, managed to make this MDP 20 pages long. Thank you for all of your imput. This thread was created October 16, 2021. As far as I'm concerned, this thread is closed.

Look to my new thread for a more bad-a$$ party.
Actually in Trynton now. Will soon be ready to head to Lower Marten's Bluff.