I really dislike how gimped Power Fists are. It takes several hits with them to take down an ordinary CSM. I was trying to increase its stats to make it more instant-killy and I find the damage values hard to understand.

Any ideas what is it written as?
0 10 # Armor Dammage
0 10 10 10 10 10 10 # Character Dammage
8 6 20 # Armor Penetration
80 # Weapon Strength

Max char damage is 60, so it seems that character damage is 6D10?

Vehicle penetration looks like D8 + D6 + D20?

What kind of insanity is it?

Armour damage is probably a D10 ?

Weapon Strength is probably armour penetration...

So, I guess a lot of low damage dices would probably create more reliable killing capability?

EDIT:
Not really, the maximum number of damage dices is 12, so minimum damage will always be at most 12 :( .

Compare with the krak grenade and meltabomb (which I remember usually one-shots Chaos Marines) and go from there. It looks like the damage is written as the sides on each dice .

Power Fist # WEAPON NAME
0 10 # Armor Dammage
0 10 10 10 10 10 10 # Character Dammage
8 6 20 # Armor Penetration
80 # Weapon Strength
10 # AP To Use

Krak Grenade # WEAPON NAME
0 20 20 20 # Armor Dammage
0 30 30 10 10 10 10 10 # Character Dammage
8 6 10 # Armor Penetration
60 # Weapon Strength
15 # AP To Use

Melta Bomb # WEAPON NAME
0 20 20 20 # Armor Dammage
0 30 30 10 10 10 10 10 # Character Dammage
8 6 20 # Armor Penetration
80 # Weapon Strength
15 # AP To UseHave you considered the probability distribution? In the scenario you propose, the actual chance of that happening will be one in a trillion ( you can check that on http://anydice.com/ ).
The more dice you roll, the more the roll probability distribution will tend towards the average value. If you have 12D10, then 97% of your roll totals will fall between 45 and 87, and a whole 90% between 50 and 82.
To actually increase damage, increase the number of sides on the dice.

I see. I think the problem is that damage values are badly thought out in game. In tabletop game, Power Fist ignores armour and turns marine into paste 5 times out of 6. To get such results damage value probably has to be much higher.

Hmm...
Done some testing and it seems that between 8D20 (160) and 12D20 (240), consistently only 25% of hits are one hit kills.

I wonder what is happening. There's a toughness value but I don't know what role it takes in damage calculations.

EDIT:
Tried with 12D60 (720). Still 25% hits kill D: .

Tried with 12D255 and 12D1024 and kill ratio is about 30% :/ .

I don't know what's going on :/ .

Hmm... Power Fist with melta-bomb stats one-shots a CSM only with 10% of hits.

I think I found out the cause of the erratic kill power of weapons.

For the damage to be applied, it must get through armour either by penetration or by destruction of armour or a combination of both.

The reason why even extreme damage and penetration usually fails to kill is that penetration is somehow applied randomly. Either as a 0-max or a percentage chance or a combination of both.

After some experimenting, it seems that there's both a an probability for penetration being applied (about 25%) and a critical hit that ignores armour (about 10%). Which is kinda illogical.

So, any reliable killer must also be a reliable armour-destroyer. Increase of armour-destruction of power fist can boost lethality to about 4/7 with the current stats.

In GenericData.dat, there's an entry 60 # ARMOR_DICE = 60;
Must investigate further.

Regarding mods, I found this piece of information online:
I put it here in case the original website goes down:

http://directx.pl/warhammer-40k-chaos-gate


WarHammer 40K – Chaos Gate
WarHammer 40K – Chaos Gate

Cheat Codes:
————
First, go into the Data file in the game directory.
Then, you can edit any of these files to change certain aspects of the game,
such as: Names for both sides, weapon statistics, experience awarded for kills,
vehicle statistics, Psyker power statistics, and more! All you have to do is edit
the files.

These are the ones I have found most useful:

Accounting.dat – Experience
SpellDef.dat – Psyker Powers
VehicDef.dat – Vehicle Statistics
WeapDef.dat – Weapon Statistics
UltNames. – Ultramarine Names
ChaNames.dat – Chaos Names

Note that any changes you make may effect Chaos as well, so be careful, especially
with the weapons!

Make new campaigns:
———————–
Submitted by: Gamesplorer

ou folks are still playing this game? Awesome. Ive still got it running on my old HP
pavilion. Ive discovered a way to create whole new campaigns for the game:

1.) Navigate to C:\Program Files\Random Games\Chaos Gate\Maps
This is where all the single player campaign maps are. Save them off somewhere else so
you can restore the original campaign later on if you want to.

2.) start up the scenario editor that comes with the game. Under FILE, click
Generate Random Map. This brings up the same screen for generating a single random
battle. All the elements are there for designing a particular battle, and the computer
will generate the terrain and the enemy forces. When the computer is done, it will leave
you in the scenario editor so you can make any additional changes if you are handy with
the editor. One quick and easy thing you can do is click MISSION SETUP under the SETUP
button. There you can add a title and a mission briefing. You can also check off which
units can take part in the mission. This allows you to have Captain K and the other high
levels participate in your very first missions. Please note that if you add text to the
mission briefing it will only show up in the mission briefing pop up in the battlefield.
The Cathedral Bridge screen will still show the original campaigns briefings.

3.) When you are done with the generated mission, click FILE and then SAVE AS and give it the
same file name as the map you wish to replace in C:\Program Files\Random Games\Chaos Gate\Maps.
I.e. After you create your first mission, save it as Chapter01.MAP in
C:\Program Files\Random Games\Chaos Gate\Maps. After you finish creating your second mission
save it as Chapter02.MAP. Etc etc etc.

4.) when you start the single player campaign, you will start out at the first mission, get
the Cathedral Bridge briefing for the original first mission, but the battlefield briefing
pop up will show your new first mission. In the addition to the new set of missions youve
created, youll still get the randomly generated secondary missions too. The thing about
having a new campaign is that Captains K command will start out with their normal lack of
experience and the new campaigns will allow them to progress just like the old campaign did.
And theres the fun of seeing the marines get picked off one by one as the missions go by.
I missed those two things when I got tired of playing the old campaign.

5.) Cautions. A.) Make sure you have no mistakes (like forgetting to specify an mission
ending condition)in any of your missions because once you start the campaign, the computer
saves the campaign maps off somewhere else as it goes through the campaign. If youve made
a mistake in the Chapter05.MAP, you will have to restart your campaign all over again
after you fix it. B.) In the Scenario Editors Generate Random Map screen, the size and
power of the Chaos forces are determined by the Level of Difficulty slider. Since the
Ultramarines start at low experience in the beginning, you will have to do some play-testing
to determine what the difficulty level should be for each mission. I.e., if you set the
Difficulty level at 10 for the Chapter01.MAP mission, your guys will get wiped out even if
you have Captain K, the Chaplain, and three Dreadnoughts with you. Match the difficulty
level of the first mission to the experience level of Chapter01.MAP and then step it up
in successive missions.
Have fun, folks!

I doubt you're still monitoring this old thread of yours, but here's a few tips to improve it :

1) The first number on the foremost left - the first zero in your "0 30 30 10 10 10 10 10 # Character Damage" example) is always, in all files, the first direct, automatic and unrandomized factor applied. So honestly, if all you care about is dealing a ton of damage, no need to care about dice rolls - the next numbers - : just enter a huge one instead of that zero in the category you're interested in and the job's done... Check instant damage pieces of equipment (like the Haywire Grenade for example) and you'll notice they use that trick to pass armour automatically...

2) It's important to keep in mind the modifications made by RandomGames for the sake of gameplay... I've now modded most of the files in order to return the game to its table top roots and, well..., it's interesting but not really better and plays then completely differently. Their (pretty solid) choices meant fast fluid and epic combat, instead of ending up with another X-COM 1 or 2 clone in which we would have needed to check hit percentages even at close range and constantly care about covers while fearing any (single) shot's effects !
RandomGames used the (non RPG) 2nd edition's official rules for 80% of what you can access in those files - usually with a 1 to 10 pts conversion ratio between the codexes and the game, giving them more flexability for design purposes -, but also made clever compromises, such as their health (Character Damage) system : instead of pitting your units with 1, 2 or 3 Wounds against weapons which could have dealt a flat 1 damage in most cases (and Power Gloves didn't roll dices back then : they only dealt 1 damage per hit, which was enough to kill most units anyway !), they gave creatures 30 Health points per Wound, usually sticking close to 60 for (Chaos) Space Marines - even though that means technically 2 Wounds and means a huge buff ^^, but their progression up until Mighty Hero maximal level only adds 30 more, so the end result doesn't differ -, and then converted all weapon damage accordingly... 30 (potential) Character Damage per 1 point in the official data sheets. So a D3 Wounds weapon gives a 90 Character Damage here, distributed differently according to its weapon type and reliability (3D30 ; 4D20 + 1D10 ; 9D10 ; etc.). This obviously has several benefits for designing a video game, for it allows various experience progressions from a creature to another - with 20 points variances for every 2 points (in the table top game) for example -, builds tension in a more interesting way - will he survive a 6D10 hit with only 39 Heath remaning ^^... - and allows your little ones to heal themselves in between fights - with only 1 Wound for a start, none of them could have made use of a Medikit ^^ !

3) Remembering the 2nd edition of W40k was used for most of the game's rules really helps. Back at your "Vehicle penetration looks like D8 + D6 + D20" exemple, this actually means 8 (a fixed number, as explained above) + D6 + D20, corresponding to Weapon Strength + D6 + Vehicle Penetration Bonus (based on Weapon Strength : 8 to 10 granted an extra D20). But all the stats in Chaos Gate have been directly take from it and Toughness had enormous importance - it still has actually -, since any source of damage, even if it hit the target, would have to make a Strengh dice roll against it - without which all your shots would just bounce off the victim's torso, I guess. Weapon Strengh represents that second dice check's second factor, used to hurt from afar (10 pts for 1 in the table top version). Without a high value there, you're doomed to get unreliable results, as with Frag Grenades (as soon as your guys get Toughnesses over 40, they're pretty safe from those Weapon Strengh 30 (Strengh 3) hits) or the Bolter's meager 40 (Strengh 4)...
It also does affect the Armor Penetration value - which is (more or less) calculated by the formula "Weapong Strenght /10 + Total Character Damage /3 + D6" - an equivalent to the "Strengh + Damage + D6" formula for (heavy) armor penetration in the 2nd edition in fact, with a few twists here since some values have been tweaked. But that one shouldn't concern you in most cases, as it's sole purpose was to penetrate any vehicule's armour. AP worked then very differently for example - although the 9th edition's actually taking a 360° turn on the matter ^^ ! - and what concerns you more directly was the "Save modificator", called "Armour Damage" in the game. The ratio's, here too, 10 points (be it D10, D20 or whatever regroups them afterwards) for a -1 in the codexes... And as you've already noticed in the GeneralData file, there's a (one or two) D60 (throw) value to save units equiped with armor against damage : a (Chaos) Space Marine gets 40 points (out of 60) representing his 3+ (on a D6) and a (Chaos) Terminator receives 110 (out of 1D120 - and not 2D60, for armor dices just stack and aren't thrown separatly) instead of a 3+ on 2D6. So, up to that point, it's quite easy to understand and works the same way - even though you could be picky about their model, since 1D120 (since) doesn't mean the same probability distribution as 2D6 of course -...
Unfortunately, the next step isn't that much and it's rather unclear how it exactly works in practice - even after a lot of practice. It sometimes does so like in the table top version - if the save is failed, the unit takes damage ; if not, it's safe, although its armour takes damage instead -, but I'm not sure what's the exact calculation here... Armor most likely only means total avoidance of (character) damage and doesn't reduce it (up to some point) when a save is failed. Reducing armor means therefore reduced ulterior saves and more chances to cripple the unit's health. You'll notice that while showering (Chaos) Space Marines with bolts : in practice, it only means (most of the time) reducing their armour value, pretty much like lots of other games do : you get an armour bar and take no or reduced damage as long as that armour isn't broken first... But the exact ratio isn't clear, and it's not only because of the Armour Damage rolls' randomness. The Weapon Strength rolls against Toughness play a huge part here, leading to many different scenarios where units do seem hit sometimes without any consequences at all (be it health or armour - their Toughnesses allowed them to just shrug off damage)... or, opposedly, to suffer sharp health drops while being in full unblemished armour.
I think Random Games went for unecessary complication here or, possibly for technical reasons, were forced to compose with the engine's own rules - since Chaos Gate remains, at heart, a continuation of Soldiers at War, their previous game. Nevertheless, the second number you'll see when aiming at any unit with a weapon brings in a value which combines both the wounding roll (Strength against Toughness) and the actual damage one (with armor dice rolls). But, at that's a complete departure from table top Warhammer 40k, the percentage exposed there - let's say you have 90% to wound a unit (with a Power Fist, that's easy to reach), but it has full (40) armor left, meaning your chances to land a hit in its heath drops by 66%, the number exposed will be 90 x 0.33 = 30 (or so) - seems to be used by the engine to make a roll in itself ! Meaning that, instead of rolling to wound (as per common rules), you have to pass that new check - which is obviously much harder as soon as you aim at armored troops - and then you still have to roll for armor save - otherwise, what would be the point of those armor dices in the game files ? -, only to discover if you can roll again for either armor damage - a successful save still guarantees you to drop a bit your target's protection - or character damage (should armor be bypassed). If the actual formula looks like that (and I think it does), it would mean not only awful lot of rolls for a single attack, but a double-check system - armor playing its role twice - which enormously favors (Chaos) Space Marines... This would also explain why your own Terminators can pretty much walk around carelessly (as long as there's no heavy weapon around). No ordinary unit has a reasonnable chance of threatening them...

In any case, as said, if you want constant strong Character Damage, just use a high Weapon Damage value (for hurting), combined with high Armour Damage (unrandomized by the use of the first zero, if you want to) and then a decent amount of Character Damage (unrandomized too, if you want maximal effect). Incidentally, 255 enforces any any entry's maximum value in the game. But no need for huge dice rolls here : Most creatures don't have more than 50 or 60 Health points - 1 or 2 Wounds - and even a humble Frag Grenade (6D10) could (and actually does sometimes) chop off a good chunk of that once it passes through armour...

Changing the weapon stats is all well and good. but how about lifting restrictions?
at the end i had like 3-4 assault cannons yet i still only could bring one to the field.
any way to change that? or bring 5 heavy bolters, something to that extend.

or maybe add weapos you are not supposed to have early ?

3 or 4 Assault Cannons ?! Good Lord ! May the Emperor protect your enemies ^^ !
This is fairly easy to do, if you want to bypass the offical 2nd edition limitations, but :
1) What you're asking for here already implies two or three different types of modifications (lifting a numerical limitation and adding additionnal weapons, either to your stocks or to a given map).
2) You must understand that, due to the way the campaign games are saved (with a lot of references to weapon files and so on...), you may not be able to enjoy those modifications in an existing save.
3) Even when they're taken in account, conflicts between cross references (modified and unmodified) might also cause minor troubles, such a weapon options disappearing (completely) from the selection menus or not working well (no more unjamming options, etc.) during missions...
So your best bet is either to modify the files in order to play games in the random map generator, individual scenarios from the campaign... or start a new campaign anew, once you're completely satisfied with your meddling. If you want to stay away from troubles, just avoid toying too much with your personnal (existing) saved games (and always backup the original files anyway).

Now, adding stuff is the easiest half of your wishes to grant : by opening any map of the game (in the Map folder), both campaign and custom ones, you can of course place anything you want somewhere, on the ground or in an existing canister... And if you prefer to add weapons to your stocks, find the appropriate Armory Levels file in the Data folder - there is one per difficulty level : SpArm.dat, VetArm.dat, HeroArm.dat and MHeroArm.dat, plus GenArm.dat for the random maps. Open them with a text editior and just increase the numbers concerning your weapon (ammunition, etc.) of choice... The leftmost column concerns fixed numbers - as a minimal basis -, while the others (from left to right) determine maximum (but random) values of your starting equipment,
Regarding lifting limitations, it's quite easy, but a little bit more demanding. You'll have to keep one of those Armory Level files opened somewhere (as a reference), while you find and modifiy the StdWeap.dat file (in the same Data folder). This one commands, for each squad type, which sorts of weapons it can wield. Now, unfortunately, some limitations are strictly encoded in the compiled *.exe file and you can't touch that easily. So the trick is simple : if you want a squad to wield 4 or 5 weapons of a type usually limited to 1 or 2, you'll need to cut & paste authorizations from one type to another. Once an Assault Cannon is considered a Standard Weapon instead of a Special Weapon, you can field as many of them as you like at once... But, in order to do that, you'll need to check that weapons ID number (in your Armory Level file, it's the number on the rightmost column, after that weapon's name), search for it in the StdWeap.dat file, make sure it concerns the right squad (as some weapons can be wielded by several different squads, like how Bolters are used by both Tactical and Devastator Space Marines) by checking both that squad's ID number (near the Squad Type label) and it's authorized weapons (also by using your Armory Level filed : if a given squad can wield tons of Heavy Weapons, it's obviously the Devastators, etc. ; lots of Standard Weapons, it's the Tactical fellows ; lots of Standard and Heavy Weapons, it's the Chaos Space Marines, etc.), before finally making your move : just cut the number of the weapon you want to wield with no limitations from one (initial and limited) category to another (unrestrained). Therefore, your Squad W will be allowed to wield Weapons X as a Weapon type Y (in unlimited numbers) instead of Weapon Type Z (limited to one or two pieces). Rinse and repeat for other weapons and squads until you're satisfied with the result, before testing it on a random map...

Have fun with your modifications !

Thank you VERY much! Surely the Emperor is pleased to know that his angels will get a boon they would never admit needing ^^. I’ll try it out at once!

Well, the Devastator's limitations in (5 men) Combat Squads are completely official and came straight out of White Dwarf's rule addendums (38, if I remember well). But yes, this is one of the few funny glitches in the original version of the game. Problem is that trick remains quite limited, for it only concerns that squad, doesn't allow for any weapons outside of Devastator limitations - no Special Weapons for example -, and must be redone before each mission...
So for modding enthousiasts who want to fiddle with the game's regulations, another approach is required. Fortunately, this is quite easy to do...