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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Is there any way i can restore the original maps from vanilla 1.2 and keep the glitches in the dialogues from vanilla 1.2 that result in same quest being completed twice (Carnival of Death and Hitman Impasse), in your patch, somehow?
I don't think you can get the original 1.2 maps, but the original 1.2 dialogue files are in the pack101.vpk archive and can be extracted with VPKTools. They might probably break a lot of fixed other quests though...
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KiNgBrAdLeY7: Is there any way i can restore the original maps from vanilla 1.2 and keep the glitches in the dialogues from vanilla 1.2 that result in same quest being completed twice (Carnival of Death and Hitman Impasse), in your patch, somehow?
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wesp5: I don't think you can get the original 1.2 maps, but the original 1.2 dialogue files are in the pack101.vpk archive and can be extracted with VPKTools. They might probably break a lot of fixed other quests though...
Thanks! You are a treasure, pal!
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wesp5: The original product will not run on modern computers without tweaking and the original dlls are all included.
Assuming your are the Wesp of the Wesp patches, let me thank you so very much for all the great work you have done to improve and bugfix this game! By the number of years this has been going on and the exceedingly high quality of your work I conclude that this has been a real labor of love for you--and it shows! I'm not sure I know of another game improved and bug-fixed to this extent...;)

I bought the original game when it was new and can verify absolutely that it won't run in its "natural state" on modern hardware and OSes, and I have particularly enjoyed your improvements to shaders and other graphical elements in the game. The original game shines through splendidly--except that it's fixed now and works and looks so much better than it did!...;) I'm sure it is far closer to what Troika had in mind than the rushed original game ever was--no question about that, I think.

I have to chuckle at the people who think the "original experience" (that won't even run today) is something worth investigating--as if your improvements had turned the game into something it was never supposed to be. Bah, humbug!...;) Like I say, the original creators should be nothing except ecstatic because of what you've done which is to fulfill their original dream, I'm sure. I've been gaming for much longer than I care to admit...;)...and I find nothing remotely noble about game bugs and short-cuts taken to appease a pushy publisher's schedule...nope, no redeeming social features there at all, in my view! Great to see the game here, and thanks again!
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waltc: I find nothing remotely noble about game bugs and short-cuts taken to appease a pushy publisher's schedule...nope, no redeeming social features there at all, in my view! Great to see the game here, and thanks again!
It seems Tim Cain agrees with you and myself on the state in which Bloodlines was released in. He wrote in "Gamers at work, Chapter 6 | Tim Cain: Cofounder, Troika Games:"

First, while the game was held until Half-Life 2 shipped, we were also not allowed to keep the title in development. Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game, especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let that happen.
...
Activision had become impatient and wanted the game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity, we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas.

No wonder that I found so many unused assets in the game files that I could use to improve several maps :)!
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waltc: I find nothing remotely noble about game bugs and short-cuts taken to appease a pushy publisher's schedule...nope, no redeeming social features there at all, in my view! Great to see the game here, and thanks again!
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wesp5: It seems Tim Cain agrees with you and myself on the state in which Bloodlines was released in. He wrote in "Gamers at work, Chapter 6 | Tim Cain: Cofounder, Troika Games:"

First, while the game was held until Half-Life 2 shipped, we were also not allowed to keep the title in development. Activision had us work on the game until a certain point, and then they froze the project. We'd have continued to improve the game, especially by fixing bugs and finishing incomplete areas, but they didn't let that happen.
...
Activision had become impatient and wanted the game shipped as soon as possible. They wanted to cut areas of complexity, we wanted to maintain quality, and the game was caught in a lopsided tug-of-war. In the end, Activision “won”, and the game was shipped with many bugs, cinematic cutscene issues, and incomplete areas.

No wonder that I found so many unused assets in the game files that I could use to improve several maps :)!
But do remember that Troika had a well earned reputation for delaying release of games forever as they couldn't seem to not constantly change things. A balance is needed. I think most game designers are mod friendly these days as changes keep people playing and spreading the word (meaning more buys) - well, I would hope so, any way. But, I ask, how can someone appreciate changes if they haven't experienced the original? While it isn't expressed often enough, most people who played Bloodlines with just the 1.2 patch greatly (that word's not strong enough :) ) appreciate what the patch makers have done.
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lordhoff: But, I ask, how can someone appreciate changes if they haven't experienced the original? While it isn't expressed often enough, most people who played Bloodlines with just the 1.2 patch greatly (that word's not strong enough :) ) appreciate what the patch makers have done.
I agree to that, therefore I always recommend to play the basic patch first which fixes bugs, but does not improve unfinished areas. Speaking of which, the most obvious one for me is Grout's room! The right side is completely empty of any details in original and basic...
Post edited May 23, 2016 by wesp5
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waltc: I have to chuckle at the people who think the "original experience" (that won't even run today) is something worth investigating--as if your improvements had turned the game into something it was never supposed to be.
You can chuckle as much as you want, but some of the fixes change negatively the gameplay, even if they are closer to "how game should work". Most important issue is that if you are not a nosferatu, you need obligatory seduction point (even only one) plus seduction line during jeanette dialogue, in order to save both personalities later on, or else... While in the original you could talk however you like, even belittle them both and reunite them only through persuasion alone, no need for seduction and careful dialogue lines!

Also, fixes made it now impossible to complete 2 certain quests twice, so you can have double the amount of xp (one of them, hitman impasse, even gave 6, so doing that in the original netted you a much appreciated 12 whole XP points)! Someone may argue that this was cheating and unintentional, but from RP perspective it is feasible; for example you "misguide" the murderer to think that you cut him loose, but before he leaves, you also attack him, or for the 2 crazy old fools, after reuniting them, you trick one, kill them, loot his key and turn it to his former comrade, who initially proposed killing him anyway!

As i said, wesp's job is wonderful, especially in graphics and details. But i wanted the original experience, i liked the original maps, i simply wanted the game to run in modern systems without any alterations to content... But anyway, i enjoyed it; still though, i prefer the original.

Some modern systems can run it, if you limit down the processor to 2 gigs. And in an old system using XP, it runs damn fine. Thankfully, my old XP laptop runs the original box version i undug recently again pretty well!
Ah nice, this was done in time for me to play with the Companion Mod (that I have a credit in as a beta tester because I'm special). So this little tool definitely came in handy for me. The mod I want to use still utilizes a LOT of Wesp5's work, just a much earlier version of it so his work is invaluable. Wesp5 has always been very friendly and accommodating to my requests and gripes over at Planet Vampire so I am always very grateful to him. And right now I am grateful that he kept those 12 files mentioned elsewhere in his patch and also grateful to the creator of this tool. :D

I am noticing however, that after utilizing the tool and then installing the Companion Mod that the character sheet still lists UP 5.6 as being installed. Does anyone know if this might affect the Companion Mod in any way? Usually you should see "CompMod 1.4" in the character sheet if its installed correctly.
This post should be stickied:
https://www.gog.com/forum/vampire_the_masquerade_series/vote_for_a_vanilla_v12_build_of_vtm_bloodlines/post12

and in general there should be an option to install only vanilla version of the game.
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goral: and in general there should be an option to install only vanilla version of the game.
There already is, just start the game from the Legacy shortcut...
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goral: and in general there should be an option to install only vanilla version of the game.
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wesp5: There already is, just start the game from the Legacy shortcut...
I know about that, the problem arises when one wants to install different mods or patches. For example there is a Polish translation integrated with UP 8.6 and I'm not sure whether the game could be played without any issues with two versions of UP installed. Even if it would, it unnecessarily complicates things for the user. I don't need Polish translation but some of my colleagues do and I'm asking for them.
Post edited August 19, 2018 by goral
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goral: I know about that, the problem arises when one wants to install different mods or patches.
Not really, everthing compatible with the mod loader goes into its own folder, everything else over the vampire folder just like with the original game.
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wesp5: There already is, just start the game from the Legacy shortcut...
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goral: I know about that, the problem arises when one wants to install different mods or patches. For example there is a Polish translation integrated with UP 8.6 and I'm not sure whether the game could be played without any issues with two versions of UP installed. Even if it would, it unnecessarily complicates things for the user. I don't need Polish translation but some of my colleagues do and I'm asking for them.
You definitely can install any mod in its own folder (which the mod installer should hopefully handle for you). The UP normally installs in the folder "Unofficial_patch", if it finds an older version it will overwrite it, and any save games found are moved to save_old (underneath unofficial_patch).

If you have issues, you should be able to delete the unofficial_patch folder (or rename it if you want to play it safe), then install the mod you want (e.g. UP 8.6 + Polish translation).

If you keep both mods around (e.g. they're in different folders), you can then choose whichever one you want by ensuring each one has its own shortcut (it needs "-game <patch_dir>" after the exe in the shortcut, where <patch_dir> is simply the name of the folder containing the mod (not the complete path, just the folder), without the quotes).

I would be very surprised if it becomes necessary to revert to vanilla 1.2.