Following Iorveth's storyline, did anybody else think the game sort of fell apart once you get to Vergen? Wow, to me, EVERYTHING in this chapter - quests, story, characters, dialogues, environment - is a major step down from how great all these things were in chapter 1 and in the entire game of TW1.

I'm just playing this game for the first time. I thought the entire adventure in Flotsam was very well done from start to finish, similar to TW1. I was totally 100% engaged in it just like I was through the whole game of TW1.

But ever since I got to Vergen, playing this game has become a chore. And that is really a shocker for me, I never thought there would be a time where I have to *force* myself to try to sit down and play a Witcher game. I have loved this franchise so much, through the entire first game and the first chapter of TW2, to the point that I wouldn't have thought it was possible that the game could get so boring. It almost seems like this section was created by a different dev team than the people who created TW1 and the Flotsam story/adventure.

Am i the only person who thought this part of the game was incredibly weak? I haven't seen anyone commenting on this in the reviews or the forums. When people criticize the game they seem to pick out the systems/interfaces that perhaps took a slight step back from TW1. But for me those kind of problems are just mildly irritating. Nothing compared to a whole chapter of uninteresting quests and poor writing. But maybe it's just me....

Was I supposed to side with Roche? Does that storyline continue with a stronger narrative and quests and situations that make a bit more sense?

Even though the game has two diverging storylines, well now that I "made the big choice", the game has become more like a semi-interactive movie, where I'm really more just "following along" with Geralt's story than "controlling" it. There even is no real choice even *how* to solve the various quests, hell more than once now I've been forced to bypass what seems like a simple, expedient solution to a quest, to instead have to solve it in some much more cumbersome way because "that's how the devs wanted you to do it".

And the game seems to really have hit an all-time low with the running "Balin joke" in the Dwarven mine quest. Not only was that completely corny, not funny in the slightest, a "breaking the 4th wall" thing, and an otherwise totally forgettable "dungeon" experience, well the dev's may as well have said "Hey check it out - we ran out of ideas!!!". That's gotta be the low point in the entire TW franchise so far.

And even beyond all that, from what I can tell, the characters I am most concerned about have already moved on to the next game environment? Letho, Triss, and Iorveth have all have left Vergen and apparently moved on to the next location. And I don't blame them - hah, I just wish I could have gone too.....

But instead, I am left behind in the backwater that is Vergen, the least interesting and interactive Witcher environment I have seen yet through the first 2 games, with a massive list of fetch-quest type chores to do, involving characters and events I just don't care that much about. Saskia? Philippa? Henselt? Do i really even care who wins this little "war" going on here? Not really. I'm much more interested in saving Triss and finishing my fight with Letho. But I'm stuck needing a to finish a boatload of unrelated quests that I could give a crap about, just so I can move on to join the other key characters and finish the story. That's horrible. There are no choices here - if I could make a choice, it would be to get the hell out of Vergen, forget about the events going on there, and go pursue the goals I actually care about. That I cannot do this really removes any "role-playing" concept from this game. I am not allowed to make Geralt be the kind of character I want.

Honestly, normally at this point, I would just shelve this game and start something new out of the gazillion of other great-seeming RPGs that are on my playlist. But since this is the Witcher, and I'm very excited to play TW3, I figure I should try to stick it out, as boring as this game has gotten.

Can anybody help me out with some motivation to press on? I mean, do the events pick up later in chapter 2 (I've already found out what happened to Triss at this point)? Is chapter 3 more interesting, along the lines of TW1 or
Flotsam? And for those that have started or played TW3, is it important that I finish this game and the story so that TW3 makes sense? It seems TW3 will be much more my kind of game with an open world. I sure wouldn't still be in Vergen if TW2's world was open.....

In my opinion, the Geralt who is most interested in saving Triss is going to choose Roche's path. This was my impression from talking to Roche in my first (spoiler free) playthrough, and after playing both paths I found I was right.

I can't say the rest of Ch. 2 is necessarily better on Roche's path though. There's actually probably less environments to explore. I enjoyed the main quest more however (lifting a curse) and fighting off the assassins some more. I can't even remember the exact story on Iorveth's path except that it involved a lot of political stuff, and Saskia of course.

Overall the environs of TW2 were claustrophobic to me and the story unusually concerned with politics. TW3 returns to more familiar witcher themes.

I know this is not the answer you are looking for, but I'm afraid I can't help you too much since I really enjoyed both Iorveth's and Roche's parts of the story. With that said, the particular snippet I just quoted (and one other direct reference to Lord of the Rings) is often criticized by people who are not familiar with the original Sapkowski's works. Characters in The Witcher universe seem to be very aware of *our* classical tales as sort of legends told trough generations. It's even reasonably likely that Witcher is either set on Earth in distant future or that humans from contemporary Earth got pulled into a different dimension/planet/whatever during certain cataclysmic events. So many of these references are more of a throwback to that as opposed to attempt at 4th wall breaking.

Hey thanks for the responses!

I totally agree that "the Geralt who is most interested in saving Triss is going to choose Roche's path".

I really struggled with that decision (which was awesome!!) because of this - because I so much wanted to save Triss, yet from a political angle I'm all in with Iorveth's cause. I think I even had to put the game down that night for a bit so I could make the right decision with a cool head - I love that kind of stuff. In the end I figured either way I was going to the place where Triss was taken, so I may as well pick my side based on the greater political events.

But yes, after that all the politics got to be a bit too much for me. And honestly, thinking about the situation and gameworld as I understand it, even tho Iorveth sided with Saskia, well I don't picture things improving much for the elves and dwarves no matter who wins between her and Henselt. Perhaps the final events in Flotsam made me feel so skeptical of this. But yeah, I have a harder time getting behind Saskia's cause, and of course she had barely been introduced as a character before she was poisoned. I didn't know that, interesting! Well it makes more sense in that context. I do like that kind of thing - reminds me some of the more interesting parts of Stephen King's Dark Tower series, with people singing "Hey Jude" and such. And yes, I certainly am not familiar at all with Sapkowski's original works - I only know them through these games. (Though I may read them some now).

You know, I actually really enjoyed the LOTR reference with Iorveth's "piece of lembas" comment, hah. Then Geralt is all "huh?" "Nothing D'hoine, nothing...". Hah, that was a great little scene that gave me the best laugh of the game. And that whole sequence of events ending the Flotsam chapter was the most memorable and compelling part of the game for me by far.

Well hey thanks again for the comments! I'm going to try and bear down and finish this game now, get through these quests in Vergen so I can move on and sort things out with Letho and Triss. I am looking forward to resolving those things. And then I'm really looking forward to TW3 - what a great combination, this gameworld and storytelling combined with an open world. I think the open world will help keep me from getting bogged down, even if some part of the story doesn't click with me as well like this.

Like others here, I enjoyed both the Vergen sections of the game and the parts on Roche's path. I played Roche's path first, however, and that may have actually increased my enjoyment of Iorveth's path, since I knew what was happening on the other side.

There are more choices than you think in Vergen, but they're not necessarily obvious, and in general there are fewer choices in Chapter 2 no matter which side you pick. Geralt gets caught up in this conflict, and wants to move on, but has to deal with things here first. He is frustrated in exactly the same way you are.

I think you'll enjoy Roche's path more. If you want to get at Letho, that's the way to go. But I enjoyed Iorveth's path because it gave me a chance to stand up for the nonhuman population, something that Geralt has done at times in the books. It also deals more with the sorceress' involvement in events, which was interesting to see.

You mention all the politics in Vergen, but I felt it was less political than Roche's path. Roche is very concerned about what's going to happen to Temeria, Redania, and Kaedwen, and his side deals with what shape the Northern kingdoms may take after all the assassinations. Saskia just wants independence, and doesn't really care if the human kingdoms fight among themselves.

I do still think you'll like Roche's path more, however, and definitely recommend going back to try it after you've finished the game. You really only get half the story otherwise.

Lastly, I'll say that in general the story of The Witcher 2 evolves from something that's very personal for Geralt to something that's much bigger than that. This is a bit different from the first game, where Geralt could more or less look out for himself and his friends throughout; here, whether he likes it or not, things spiral out of control and it's no longer just about him and Letho and Triss, no matter which side he picks for Chapter 2. I like this evolution a lot (and found it expressed more clearly on Roche's path), but it may not be as much to your taste. I definitely recommend sticking it out and finishing the game, however. It's cool to see how it all ties together, especially when you've seen both sides of Chapter 2.

Ah, then that's the difference between us. I think of things from a smaller, more personal perspective. My Geralt doesn't want to make grand political stands, he wants to help his friends. He has non-human friends, sure, but Iorveth's Scoiatel aren't any of them.

Iorveth and the elves treat Geralt like an outsider, like a real piece of crap, and he aimed his bows and insults at me far too many times over the course of Ch. 1 for me to just hand him a weapon in a skirmish.

It was the same in TW1. Yaevinn was a total dick. I'm wasn't beguiled by the "freedom fighters" crap of the Scoiatel. Siegfried was a true knight of honor. Roche may not be great but he had the means and the will to help me track down Triss.

I've never seen the choices as "evil establishment" vs. "freedom fighters." My Geralt sides with people, not ideals, and that leads him where it will. I didn't even know the choice to give Iorveth a weapon was the crucial, path-choosing moment. :)

I'm actually replaying the trilogy now in anticipation of the new TW3 expansion. Just finished TW1, about to embark on part 2. Maybe my impressions will be different this time around.

That's an interesting way to look at it, "He is frustrated in exactly the same way you are.". Well considering that I'm trying to role-play him, maybe I need to look at that frustration more as part of the experience, like I did when agonizing a bit over the Roche/Iorveth question. Maybe that's the motivation I needed to move forward here. Thanks for that!

I don't normally replay an RPG, since I always seem to have dozens of titles these days that I want to play but haven't had the chance to yet. But I don't think I've ever played an RPG where the story branched *this* significantly to the point that the whole experience was as different as the two paths seem to be in this game. I have to give the dev's major kudos for that, as much as I've been griping about the Vergen story and all. So maybe this time... I will certainly keep my savegames from just before I made the "big decision" here so I can do that.

Yeah I really loved the TW1 idea of Geralt as some lone, relatively unknown monster hunter, going from one town to the next, defeating whatever monsters may be plaguing them, meeting some locals and perhaps solving some additional problems for them, perhaps meeting a lovely lady or 2 along the way :). Not having any background yet with the actual character from Sapkowski's books, I felt much like another White Wolf from the literature I know (and even physically the comparison is there), Elric, like I was semi-aimlessly wandering the land as he did after the final downfall of Melnibone. I know there was a greater purpose for Geralt even in TW1, but it more just kept things moving along rather than getting in the way, I felt.

But it is a very legit idea too that at times politics comes and finds *you*, like it or not, and if you have people you care about in the world, they can and may be affected by it, sometimes you find you are forced to care. Interesting parallel with real life there for me too. Well this all should help motivate me. Though I am still looking forward to some more open-ended Witcher in TW3 :).

That could be... I have to say though, I really didn't *start* with a desire to make any political stands. Like you, I am concerned most about Geralt's friends who I have come to care about, and his own personal stories, and of course this is why I was hoping to get out of the "political arena" there in Vergen, and pursue my interests involving Triss, Letho, and the returning memories and such.

I feel more like the political events kind of came along and swept me up with them, which I suppose is how the devs wanted you to feel at times. It has been some years since I played TW1 (was right when it came out), but my impression going into TW2 of the Scoiatel, from the TW1 adventure, was that they were a group who's goals I agreed with, but who's methods to accomplish those goals and morality were questionable to the point that I didn't really consider myself "on their side".

And I still felt that way up to and during the point where I gave Iorveth the sword. That was more out of my desire to see a warrior die a warrior's death with a sword in his hand, if he was to die in that fight. And of course he had trusted me to the point that he let himself be disarmed and bound - I could have slit his throat at any moment if I had wished (in theory at least), whatever threats and warnings he had made. And he had intended to help me against Letho, and those 2 had been allies, so I thought Iorveth may have had some inside info on what Letho's next plans may have been.

But it was the events following that in Flotsam that *really* put me in Iorveth's camp, politically. But that part may have been different I suppose, if I didn't give him the sword? But after seeing what went down in Flotsam at that point, well, that put me squarely on the Scoiatel's side from then on. And further events (which again may have only occurred since I had started down the 'Iorveth path' by that point), such as Loredo''s last cowardly actions, and how willing the individual elves seemed to give everything for their cause, just reinforced to me after that point that I had made the right decision.

So I didn't know this either at the time: ".. the choice to give Iorveth a weapon was the crucial, path-choosing moment". In fact I think I just learned it now!!! :) Interesting!!

That's actually not true. I gave him the sword during my first playthrough, but still sided with Roche when the time came. The actual choice is fairly clearly telegraphed in the quest journal, I believe. There's a point where you literally have to either go talk to Iorveth and say you'll join him, or talk to Roche and say you'll join him. That's the point of no return, and it's JUST before the climax of the chapter, if I remember correctly.

But, Chapter 1 does play out differently based on earlier choices like whether you give Iorveth the sword (and many other choices). In my second playthrough, I was sure I would eventually side with Iorveth so I made that clear ealier on, and things played out differently even before I made my final decision.

The climax of the first chapter, which takes place after your final choice, is completely different also. Roche's Chapter 1 ending dealt with things that don't even come up when siding with Iorveth. So that's cool to see.

Sorry about that. I guess I really never knew the exact moment then, despite playing it twice (it's been 3 years).

I remember now, it's as Waltorious says, if you give Iorveth the sword, events change radically in Flotsam in a way that (IMO) steer you in a very natural way towards allying with the Scoiatel when the "real" path choice arises. It is indeed very different if you choose not to give Iorveth a weapon in that encounter.

That's cool, I'm actually not sure I ever refused him the sword. I know I gave it to him the first time even though I sided with Roche, and the second time I knew I was going to take Iorveth's path so I probably also gave it to him.

But I also remember things happening differently the second time around, so maybe I refused him the sword just to see what happens. I can't remember!

I do know there are other choices that change events a bit, including simple things like what you choose to say to Triss and Roche at certain points leading up to this encounter. Essentially you can set up Geralt to be ready to take one side or the other based on what you choose to say throughout the chapter. You can make it about politics and wanting to find the real assassin, or you can make it about Geralt's personal problems and his friends.

Hey just wanted to say a quick thanks to you fine folks who responded to my post. I finally finished this game (I know... I been busy as hell, and to be honest I just game slowly, hah, you don't even wanna know about my backlog...) and I have to say, Chapter 3, though short, was awesome. The Dearhanna's lab adventure, riddles, the final fights - all classic Wtcher and RPG stuff. Yeah and I had to kill Letho in the end... I know I could have been a nice guy, but he had just caused me too many problems to simply walk away. Chapter 2 did end up coming to a fairly satisfying conclusion as well.

Anyhow, very glad I finished this game and experienced the whole adventure, and your comments definitely helped me to keep pressing on. Very much looking forward to TW3 now, though I think I will play something non-witcher in between so Geralt's world feels fresh when I return to it (and I can tell already TW3 will be one of those open world games I end up sinking a ridiculous number of hours into). Cheers :)