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The Bard's Tale seriesBard's Tale Trilogy Too Easy(7 posts)solved(7 posts)solved
(7 posts)solved
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This is my favourite topic
Posted March 04, 2025
So I'm playing through BT1 with the remastered trilogy. It's...easier than I remember. Admittedly, it's been many years since I last played, but I feel like I'm steamrolling through everything in my path. I have 2 archmages not even through Harkyn's Castle! The Mad God was a one-hit kill as well. I'm playing with all the options turned on. What happened-did the EXP requirement for leveling up get drastically reduced or something?
This question / problem has been solved by dtgreeneimage
Posted March 05, 2025
If you do not have legacy XP enabled, you do, in fact, level up much faster than the original, with levels taking only half as much XP (until really high levels, with high level advanced casters being a complicated case).

There's some other changes that might be making the game easier:
* In the originals, there's a limit to how much XP you can get from one battle (it's something like 65,280). The remaster got rid of that limit, so encounters with large numbers of enemies can give you enormous amounts of XP. This becomes particularly apparent if you have legacy XP enabled and are farming that one Berserker fight.
* Monks use the BT3 damage tables for all 3 games. In BG1, this is massive overkill; you could easily kil enemies in one hit without this, so it only really affects BT2.
* You get spells from later games, and with the exception of Mind Blade, they tend to use the BT2 or BT3 versions. Healing spells, in particular, are the same as BT3 except that Restoration only costs 12 SP like in 1 and 2.
* Some bugs have been fixed.

As for the one hit kill, one hit kills, even of bosses, is normal. In BT1, all enemies have low HP; the most HP you'll see in an enemy is something like 270 (or, in classic versions, 255 because that's the most that will fit in a single byte). BT2 and BT3 give enemies more HP, particularly near the end; BT3 has enemies with over 10,000 HP! Even then, hunters and ambushing rogues can instantly kil, no matter how many HP the enemies hvae.

Also, the originals may not be as difficult as you remember.
* In BT1 DOS, enemy breath attacks are deadly, but enemies will have trouble hitting you physically until later in the castle.
* In BT1 Apple 2GS, enemy breath attacks are less dangerous (but you still need to be careful).
* In BT2 DOS (maybe Apple 2GS as well?), once you have good equipment, enemies are not going to be hitting you until the Grey Crypt, and are not going to hit you with spells at all once you reach a decent level.
* Bard's Tale 3 is more balanced in this regard (but avoid the DOS/Amiga versions; they're buggy).
Posted March 06, 2025
avatar
dtgreene: If you do not have legacy XP enabled, you do, in fact, level up much faster than the original, with levels taking only half as much XP (until really high levels, with high level advanced casters being a complicated case).

There's some other changes that might be making the game easier:
* In the originals, there's a limit to how much XP you can get from one battle (it's something like 65,280). The remaster got rid of that limit, so encounters with large numbers of enemies can give you enormous amounts of XP. This becomes particularly apparent if you have legacy XP enabled and are farming that one Berserker fight.
* Monks use the BT3 damage tables for all 3 games. In BG1, this is massive overkill; you could easily kil enemies in one hit without this, so it only really affects BT2.
* You get spells from later games, and with the exception of Mind Blade, they tend to use the BT2 or BT3 versions. Healing spells, in particular, are the same as BT3 except that Restoration only costs 12 SP like in 1 and 2.
* Some bugs have been fixed.

As for the one hit kill, one hit kills, even of bosses, is normal. In BT1, all enemies have low HP; the most HP you'll see in an enemy is something like 270 (or, in classic versions, 255 because that's the most that will fit in a single byte). BT2 and BT3 give enemies more HP, particularly near the end; BT3 has enemies with over 10,000 HP! Even then, hunters and ambushing rogues can instantly kil, no matter how many HP the enemies hvae.

Also, the originals may not be as difficult as you remember.
* In BT1 DOS, enemy breath attacks are deadly, but enemies will have trouble hitting you physically until later in the castle.
* In BT1 Apple 2GS, enemy breath attacks are less dangerous (but you still need to be careful).
* In BT2 DOS (maybe Apple 2GS as well?), once you have good equipment, enemies are not going to be hitting you until the Grey Crypt, and are not going to hit you with spells at all once you reach a decent level.
* Bard's Tale 3 is more balanced in this regard (but avoid the DOS/Amiga versions; they're buggy).
You're awesome.

So I'm not imagining the quick level gaining. I think legacy mode is definitely more my thing. I think if I ran the original Amiga or DOS version it might not be as hard as I remember, but also because I was pretty young then. I think I'll be pulling out WinUAE soon. :)
Posted March 06, 2025
avatar
dtgreene: If you do not have legacy XP enabled, you do, in fact, level up much faster than the original, with levels taking only half as much XP (until really high levels, with high level advanced casters being a complicated case).

There's some other changes that might be making the game easier:
* In the originals, there's a limit to how much XP you can get from one battle (it's something like 65,280). The remaster got rid of that limit, so encounters with large numbers of enemies can give you enormous amounts of XP. This becomes particularly apparent if you have legacy XP enabled and are farming that one Berserker fight.
* Monks use the BT3 damage tables for all 3 games. In BG1, this is massive overkill; you could easily kil enemies in one hit without this, so it only really affects BT2.
* You get spells from later games, and with the exception of Mind Blade, they tend to use the BT2 or BT3 versions. Healing spells, in particular, are the same as BT3 except that Restoration only costs 12 SP like in 1 and 2.
* Some bugs have been fixed.

As for the one hit kill, one hit kills, even of bosses, is normal. In BT1, all enemies have low HP; the most HP you'll see in an enemy is something like 270 (or, in classic versions, 255 because that's the most that will fit in a single byte). BT2 and BT3 give enemies more HP, particularly near the end; BT3 has enemies with over 10,000 HP! Even then, hunters and ambushing rogues can instantly kil, no matter how many HP the enemies hvae.

Also, the originals may not be as difficult as you remember.
* In BT1 DOS, enemy breath attacks are deadly, but enemies will have trouble hitting you physically until later in the castle.
* In BT1 Apple 2GS, enemy breath attacks are less dangerous (but you still need to be careful).
* In BT2 DOS (maybe Apple 2GS as well?), once you have good equipment, enemies are not going to be hitting you until the Grey Crypt, and are not going to hit you with spells at all once you reach a decent level.
* Bard's Tale 3 is more balanced in this regard (but avoid the DOS/Amiga versions; they're buggy).
avatar
emf2718: You're awesome.

So I'm not imagining the quick level gaining. I think legacy mode is definitely more my thing. I think if I ran the original Amiga or DOS version it might not be as hard as I remember, but also because I was pretty young then. I think I'll be pulling out WinUAE soon. :)
I would advise against the Amiga versions. 1 and 2 apparently have a bug that causes Warriors to not get extra attacks, instead giving them to Bards.

If you intend to play 3, do not play the Amiga or DOS version. There are so many bugs that I consider those versions to be bad. Among other things, enemies never inflict status ailments or use their breath attacks, second sight doesn't work properly, stoneblades don't work properly, Divine Intervention doesn't heal you, enemies appear in the wrong areas, Harmonic Gems are way too rare, and other issues. (There's a fan patch for the DOS version that apparently fixes the most serious of these issues; use it if you really intend to play the DOS version.)

For BT3, play the Apple 2 or Commodore 64 version instead. (Though I wouldn't play 2 on either of those systems because, again, bugs.)
Posted March 06, 2025
Now that I have more time, let me elaborate on some of the version specific bugs.

Bard's Tale 1 DOS:
* Dungeon traps don't inflict status ailments.
* Luck boosting effects (ANMA, Lucklaran) do not work; this is part of the reason dragon breath is so dangerous in this version
* Special party members don't use their 4th attack. This means your Demon Lord will never use its breath attack, and your illusionary Red Dragon will only breathe 1/3 of the time instead of 1/2 the time.
* Rogue abilities don't work.
* After level drain, and after being healed at the temple, you can immediately level up. (This also affects DOS BT2; DOS BT3 technically has this bug, but a different bug breaks level draining, making it impossible to trigger this bug without hacking.)

Bard's Tale 2 DOS:
* When Bard Song 2 (Spellsong) ends, your light goes out. Also, when you enter a dark area, your Bard's Spellsong will end. Neither happens with the song that's supposed to (and does) provide light.
* Bard Song 7 plays the wrong tune. If you press "V" twice (to turn the music off and back on), the correct song will play.
* In anti-magic areas, spellcasting items will work. (I consider this a bug here; on the other hand, in the remaster this is intended behavior.)
* In anti-magic zones, special party members (monsters and illusions) can still use magic without the spells fizzling.
* In anti-magic areas, if an enemy tries to throw a projectile (like a spear or arrow) at you, it will fizzle. (This one, in particular, is *very* strange.)
* Hunter's crit rate and Rogue's thief skills will overflow and roll over; typically this happens in the teens.
* Rogue abilities, again, don't work.

Bard's Tale 2 other versions:
* Reportedly, at least in the Apple 2 version (does the C64 version also experience this?), from the midgame onwards, you can't hit enemies with melee attacks *at all*, at least not without magical aid.
* In at least the C64 version, special party members will only use their spells or breath attacks if there are no enemies remaining. (This is unlike the Apple 2GS version, where they get used only when there are enemies remaining (which I consider to be intended behavior), or the DOS version, where they're used regardless.)
Posted April 21, 2025
I had the same impression when I played the new games in legacy mode. But it was because when I played the original version of BT1 I didn't know that once AC reaches LO (=-10) that wasn't the minimum but that the internal counter went to -50. So I had my chars equipped with only one or two intems until AC was LO to have more space for loot. Mangar's Tower was not survivable this way because every second monster drained levels or petrified my chars.

And a question, dtgreene seems to know a lot:
I definitely remember that you could press a key, I think it was "?", (C64, DOS or Apple version, i tried them all) to summon a special member in BT1 without wasting SPs, but I can't find anything about it.
Was this possible or am I totally wrong?
Post edited April 21, 2025 by Dedee
Posted April 21, 2025
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Dedee: I had the same impression when I played the new games in legacy mode. But it was because when I played the original version of BT1 I didn't know that once AC reaches LO (=-10) that wasn't the minimum but that the internal counter went to -50. So I had my chars equipped with only one or two intems until AC was LO to have more space for loot. Mangar's Tower was not survivable this way because every second monster drained levels or petrified my chars.

And a question, dtgreene seems to know a lot:
I definitely remember that you could press a key, I think it was "?", (C64, DOS or Apple version, i tried them all) to summon a special member in BT1 without wasting SPs, but I can't find anything about it.
Was this possible or am I totally wrong?
I'm mostly familiar with the DOS version, and somewhat with the Apple 2gs version, but I've noticed that lowering your AC below -10 in BT1 doesn't seem to do anything. Therefore, improving your AC below -10 is a waste (unless you're doing it to counter ageing and AC-increasing spells); you're better off leaving the inventory slots empty so you can pick up more items or choosing equipment for special effects like save bonuses or breath attacks.

In the DOS version, pressing a certain key (IIRC it's 'Z') will summon some creature made of stone, but only if you do this outdoors (doesn't work in dungeons). Like pretty much all monsters in the game, it has low HP, so it won't last through a longer dungeon, but it's useful when you're just getting started.

The way to deal with Mangar's Tower encounters is to level up and run. The idea is this:
* When creating your party, make sure to include a Paladin, for the saving throw bonus at higher levels.
* Level up to a fairly high level, ideally with 18 luck on the Paladin. The Paladin's level and luck are the most important parameters. (It's possible to use other classes, but the level required is higher; on the other hand, other classes might be better for early-game running.)
* Equip that Paladin with a Luckshield (boosts saving throw,.and therefore chance to run), then put them in the first party slot.
* If your level is high enough, you should now be able to run from encounters 100% of the time. If you fail, level up at least to the next even level before trying again.
* Run from all normal encounters on the final run to Mangar.
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The Bard's Tale seriesBard's Tale Trilogy Too Easy(7 posts)solved(7 posts)solved
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