Posted February 15, 2013
Ponchik: I'll reply to some contentions here.
First the museum bit. A museum is not a person that charges money in order to see a single painting. The people are paying for the guarding and preservation of the arts, not for profit.
About the Martin Luther King part: you just made my point all the more stronger. Isn't it outrageous that "I have a dream" is copyrighted? Shouldn't it be for everybody? Isn't it a part of every American's history?
Old games, as I see it are like art. When the artist makes his work public, he expects a period of revenue, and that's it. It is not right in my opinion to withhold art from the public for decades. If they want a modest fee for keeping the games up to date, I'll be all for it, but when most games here cost more than year old AAA games that are on sale, it just seems like madness to me. If you were an artist, wouldn't you like for people to be able to enjoy your work freely after it was published for enough time?
I just think the laws are horrible. I absolutely love old games, and I feel completely ripped off. I have to pay a lot of money to people who didn't have anything to do with making the games. It bugs me to no end.
I think they are worth the money, but it is just wrong. You may think a medicine is worth thousands of dollars to you, but it still doesn't make it right to charge that. I'm not supporting the people who developed the game by paying. I'm not even paying for any real maintenance. I'm paying to people who did not have anything to do with the game, and to people who made a deal with them and just added a Dosbox with a shortcut and a few wallpapers and such.
I want to play 10-20 year old games without paying outrageous sums or being a criminal. Is this too much to ask?
I'll be satisfied even if there were competition, but this is a monopoly.
First of all, unless King wrote down the entirety of his speech beforehand, the only thing copyrightable about it is the video recording of the speech, not the speech itself. Either way, fair use allows the speech to be made available for historical reasons, social criticism, and a multitude of other reasons, which are made all the more stronger that something factual as opposed to fantasy is held by the court system to be more important to disseminate; the only problem that would arise would be if someone tried to sell copies of that video or incorporate it in, say, a music video, and even then the sampling may be held to be a fair use in the form of social commentary. This means that should an organization start archiving games for historical purposes, they would have a pretty good case for doing so, so long as they did not distribute copies without permission of the copyright holder (unless, obviously, the copyright has expired). First the museum bit. A museum is not a person that charges money in order to see a single painting. The people are paying for the guarding and preservation of the arts, not for profit.
About the Martin Luther King part: you just made my point all the more stronger. Isn't it outrageous that "I have a dream" is copyrighted? Shouldn't it be for everybody? Isn't it a part of every American's history?
Old games, as I see it are like art. When the artist makes his work public, he expects a period of revenue, and that's it. It is not right in my opinion to withhold art from the public for decades. If they want a modest fee for keeping the games up to date, I'll be all for it, but when most games here cost more than year old AAA games that are on sale, it just seems like madness to me. If you were an artist, wouldn't you like for people to be able to enjoy your work freely after it was published for enough time?
I just think the laws are horrible. I absolutely love old games, and I feel completely ripped off. I have to pay a lot of money to people who didn't have anything to do with making the games. It bugs me to no end.
KEgstedt: No one just happened to find this game in a basement; and the developer studio involved spent a lot of time and effort on solving the extraordinarily difficult legal issues surrounding the rights to sell this game, and also made sure it works on modern operating systems without relying on unofficial fan-made patches. The man hours involved in these two projects alone are easily worth at least $10.
More importantly, though, people who buy games on Good Old Games firmly believe that classic games are like classic movies or classic literature; . worthwhile to spend time with even decades after their initial releases and certainly worth buying for the very reasonable price of $5-10 each. If you happen to be of a different opinion, then this site is not for you and never will be.
Ponchik: So I have either to agree and pay, or not agree and steal or not play at all. More importantly, though, people who buy games on Good Old Games firmly believe that classic games are like classic movies or classic literature; . worthwhile to spend time with even decades after their initial releases and certainly worth buying for the very reasonable price of $5-10 each. If you happen to be of a different opinion, then this site is not for you and never will be.
I think they are worth the money, but it is just wrong. You may think a medicine is worth thousands of dollars to you, but it still doesn't make it right to charge that. I'm not supporting the people who developed the game by paying. I'm not even paying for any real maintenance. I'm paying to people who did not have anything to do with the game, and to people who made a deal with them and just added a Dosbox with a shortcut and a few wallpapers and such.
I want to play 10-20 year old games without paying outrageous sums or being a criminal. Is this too much to ask?
I'll be satisfied even if there were competition, but this is a monopoly.
Second of all, GOG (or, come to think of it, every other digital distribution platform) has to spend an insane amount of money trying to acquire the rights from the original developers (you know, the people who are responsible for the thing existing in the first place) to make these games available in the first place, especially older games since the IP rights have a nasty tendency to get caught in limbo when the company disbands, as a lot of makers of older games have done. One could always acquire an original copy of the game, but contrary to what you seem to think, a good number of these games require more than running them through Dosbox, but I have downloaded several games that I have tried for years to get working to no avail that worked perfectly once I bought them from Gog, and even if you do manage to get the game running on your own, often the prices for these used games can be quite high due to either rarity or high demand. Sure, you could download the game for free, but the law does not recognize someone, say, downloading a copy of a game for personal use merely because they think that they should be allowed to; I abstain from making any normative judgment on the matter, and merely mention to show that out of the available options, the option to download is highly risky, and as such, is not one that I personally find wise to engage in.
Is the copyright system flawed? You bet; I just finished taking a course on IP law last semester, and that field is a giant mess. However, barring some change in the near future, it's the body of law we are stuck with, meaning that downloading will carry the risk of getting caught. In the meantime, instead, I invest in GOG so that they can continue to acquire funds to allow them to acquire the rights to new games and pay their staff to make these games playable (something, I again remind you, is not always as simple as you seem to think it is).
fluxstuff: So, by your rationale, once a movie is a certain age, it should be free? People invested in making a game financially, emotionally, creatively and with sheer graft. There's not a statute of limitations on the value of art and there never should be. You're not entitled to it for free and GOG has invested in getting this remastered version up and running.
$10 for a classic game that's been out of print for a long time is pretty reasonable when it's optimised for Windows 7.
Ponchik: Definitely. In my opinion a decade old movie should be free. All I would expect to pay for is work and distribution cost, and extras. If you think that the cameramen, director, extras, actors or anyone else that worked on the movie gets a cent, your'e sadly mistaken. You are paying to a money hungry studio for milking a cash cow. The same here. $10 for a classic game that's been out of print for a long time is pretty reasonable when it's optimised for Windows 7.
What I want is this:
1. Revision in copyright law.
2. Competition to Gog.
3. Lower prices.
4. If a game is distributed freely, and the owner is fine with it, leave it be!
I really don't understand what is so outrageous. All I hear is the same arguments made by giant publishers. I'm all for supporting developers and buying games. What I'm not for is having to pay more for a 14 year old game than a 1 year old game, when yesterday it was free and no-one had a problem with it. It is the information age. It is not that difficult to get a hold of old games. All they have to do is say that they had their time with it, and now, after waiting a decade and a half, we can finally enjoy it for free.
As to competition... The last time I checked, we had Steam and a number of D2D sites, some of which (iirc) also offer their downloads DRM free.
As to lower prices, I again refer you to the fact that GOG acquiring the licenses to these games is not cheap; we are talking amounts with a good deal many zeroes after them. Add on top of that the sometimes rigorous overhaul a game needs to even begin to make it playable, and one can easily understand why GOG charges what it does, let alone why it charges at all.
As to your last point, great. The only problem is that unless someone creates something under the creative commons, they are almost always going to want that copyright protected. Hell, the guy who made Hotline Miami is mythological in his rarity, as he has actually *helped* people who have pirated his game get it working. Most everyone else, however, wants the money because they didn't design the game for the lolz, they did it for money.
Post edited February 15, 2013 by Jonesy89