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System Shock seriesSystem Shock 2 - GOG's version(15 posts)solved(15 posts)solved
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Posted April 05, 2016
So I noticed SS2 on GOG got an update. I'm planning on playing this series soon, and I'm one of those purists who'd rather not try any remakes, enhanced versions or fan patches before playing the vanilla original at least once first, no matter how good or necessary they are or how they improve the playing experience.

I was therefore surprised that a 16 year old game is still getting updates, long time after the developer officially stopped working on it. I searched around a bit, but got lost amongst all the information, and other than Wikipedia mentioning GOG's version being a "Collector's Edition" and the changelog mentioning a mysterious SS2tool, I'm not really sure where I stand.

Could anyone give me a TLDR version of how the version I got on GOG would be different from the classic version had I played it back in 1999/2000? As I said I'd rather have mine as close as possible to the original, with any ugly graphics, cumbersome controls and whatnot.

Thanks!

EDIT: Well, what do you know, I just read a similar thread:
https://www.gog.com/forum/system_shock_series/first_time_play_through_ss2_new_update
(a) I should read a few threads before posting (b) There seem to be lots of people like this and (c) JeCy's question is not exactly same, so I'd still be grateful for an answer of how GOG's version is different and what's this SS2tool I keep reading about.
Post edited April 05, 2016 by ZFR
This question / problem has been solved by voodoo47image
Posted April 05, 2016
It's in the sticky thread "Changelog"

System Shock 2

Changelog for update Patch 2.45 ND (GOG-11) (added 04 April 2016):

- additive blending enabled for all explosion effects (makes the explosions NOT look terrible)
- enabled FSAA by default (smooth edges)
- enabled new mantle (smooth climbing)
- enabled buffer limit (reduce lag)
- made autosaves and quicksaves NOT overwrite one another (reduces chances of people who forget to save losing progress)
- enabled subtitles, fogging and weather effects (may be required by mods or fan missions)
made sure all cutscenes are scaled properly
- added one dml that makes sure the "reach Rickenbacker" quest completes properly (dml fixing is usually SS2tool exclusive, but made an exception for this one, as broken quests are a big no-no)
- removed the DataPermMods quick modfolder (as this is now a sureproof way of busting your SS2 install - you will have to get the modmanager or SS2tool to mod the game safely)
Posted April 05, 2016
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Guter: It's in the sticky thread "Changelog"
Yes, I do have that changelog in my library and have read it it, which is the reason I created this thread. My question is: are these the only changes between the 1999 classic and the GOG version? Were there any other changes made before this update (Wikipedia mentions that there were earlier changes for the GOG version to make it "compatible with modern systems"; did this changes come with graphics improvements, resolution changes, gameplay changes or anything else?)? Does the GOG version include any community-made patches/fixes? What is the SS2tools mentioned in the update?
Posted April 05, 2016
the GOG build uses the updated Dark Engine (NewDark), that means;

- 32bit color depth (improves textures, especially water and smoke effects)
- support for modern resolutions (widescreen and eyefinity)
- better performance and stability

now the GOG fixes in the last build, adding extra comments;

- additive blending enabled for all explosion effects (makes the explosions NOT look terrible - NewDark makes explosions look way too sharp, addblend fixes this)
- enabled FSAA by default (smooth edges - check wiki for what FSAA is)
- enabled new mantle (smooth climbing - climbing was slightly broken in oldDark, resulting in players falling off edges, and frustration. this reduces that problem to pretty much nothingness)
- enabled buffer limit (reduce lag - old engines usually don't like it too much when you let them run wild. this should make things run smoother, without FPS spikes and drops)
- made autosaves and quicksaves NOT overwrite one another (reduces chances of people who forget to save losing progress - having one slot for autosave and quicksave is a terrible idea, so unterribled)
- enabled subtitles, fogging and weather effects (may be required by mods or fan missions - no more comments required)
- made sure all cutscenes are scaled properly (because why wouldn't you want to display them properly, right?)
- added one dml that makes sure the "reach Rickenbacker" quest completes properly (dml fixing is usually SS2tool exclusive, but made an exception for this one, as broken quests are a big no-no - yes it is)
- removed the DataPermMods quick modfolder (as this is now a sureproof way of busting your SS2 install - you will have to get the modmanager or SS2tool to mod the game safely - this was a quick, dirty way of allowing users to load mods when the engine got its first update. now that we have a fully working modmanager, everyone should just use that to avoid problems)

and now about bugfixes - users can choose from three levels of tuneup nowadays;

-GOG build has a few fixes for the most critical orig bugs, like that Rick quest not completing. whatever wasn't critical, was left alone.
-SS2tool will apply a set of patches that will also fix some (read: a lot of) less severe issues, like items not flushed to walls or floors, reversed buttons, some objects and systems not working correctly etc - not critical stuff, but still nice to have (again, why wouldn't you want to have properly positioned objects, correct ambients, lights that don't levitate in air etc, right?).
-Shock2 Comunity Patch (SCP), plus Fixed Objects and Shock Texture Upgrade - this is the infinity level, now represents a couple of years of polishing of all the orig resources, with every tiny issue fixed, every rough place smoothed out (as far as we are aware). it also uses 32bit lighting, making shadows look really nice (no more 16bit discoloration). Fixed Objects make sure that there are no glitches in the objects (missing polys, z-fighting etc), Shock Texture Upgrade does the same thing with textures (fixes broken ones, replaces some extremely lowres ones with their higher res versions). made by insane people who seek perfection.

and while I understand that some people want the "original experience", my recommendation will always be - always go for number three. you'll get the original experience, just with all the broken, annoying and buggy things removed. and again, why would you not want that?
Post edited April 05, 2016 by voodoo47
Posted April 05, 2016
Thank you very much for the detailed response!
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voodoo47: the GOG build uses the updated Dark Engine (NewDark), that means;

- 32bit color depth (improves textures, especially water and smoke effects)
- support for modern resolutions (widescreen and eyefinity)
- better performance
Just out of curiosity, what was the highest resolution allowed by the original Dark Engine? Is it possible to switch 32bit color depth off, and stick with the original (16 bit?)?

Is there a video comparing the original Dark with the New Dark?
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voodoo47: you'll get the original experience, just with all the broken, annoying and buggy things removed. and again, why would you not want that?
I can give a general answer to this, not specifically to System Shock 2: I've seen a few examples of community-made bug fixes that partially unbalanced the game.
Hypothetical example: The innkeper says he'll pay you 100 gold for completing the task, but only gives you 50. Which is the bug? Did the designers meant it to be 50, but forgot to change the text in the dialogue, or meant it 100 but after changing the dialogue forgot to change the amount given? A wrong decision by the bug fixer can make the game easier or more difficult than intended. Maybe the designers removed a second quest that gave you more gold, and as such decided to increase the amount from 50 to 100 and "fixing" it back to 50 might increase the difficulty. Or conversely maybe they decreased the prices and then lowered the quest reward, and increasing it back to 100 means the game becomes easier.

Which is why I'm a bit wary of overzealous bug fixers. That stash of ammo which was inaccessible and fixed by the mod might have been purposely made so as a quick workaround by the designers who had to rush things and didn't have time to properly redo the level.

That's the general reason. Not saying System Shock 2 is this way. This is not meant as a criticism for all the excellent work the community does in creating the fixes for all those video games. I personally use a lot of fan-made mods and myself have worked with the Baldur's Gate modding community back in the day. It is however the reason why I'd prefer my very first run to be unmodified.

That said, I will do a bit of research about SS2tool and SCP and decide whether to use them or not.
Post edited April 05, 2016 by ZFR
Posted April 05, 2016
max oldDark allowed was 1600*1200, if memory serves. it is possible to enable 16bit in NewDark (see docs), but this is probably not a good idea, modern gpus don't do 16bit well (if at all), and the game will probably look really ugly or be completely broken.

you can read the SS2tool fixes by opening the DML fixup files (misdml folder, in your SS2 folder after you patch up) with a text editor, the fixes are fairly well documented. SCP has a 50+ page readme that documents the fixes and changes, so have fun reading. and as far as the quality is concerned - we've been at this for a very long time now, and we know how to get things done right.
Post edited April 05, 2016 by voodoo47
Posted April 05, 2016
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ZFR: Thank you very much for the detailed response!
avatar
voodoo47: the GOG build uses the updated Dark Engine (NewDark), that means;

- 32bit color depth (improves textures, especially water and smoke effects)
- support for modern resolutions (widescreen and eyefinity)
- better performance
avatar
ZFR: Just out of curiosity, what was the highest resolution allowed by the original Dark Engine? Is it possible to switch 32bit color depth off, and stick with the original (16 bit?)?

Is there a video comparing the original Dark with the New Dark?
avatar
voodoo47: you'll get the original experience, just with all the broken, annoying and buggy things removed. and again, why would you not want that?
avatar
ZFR: I can give a general answer to this, not specifically to System Shock 2: I've seen a few examples of community-made bug fixes that partially unbalanced the game.
Hypothetical example: The innkeper says he'll pay you 100 gold for completing the task, but only gives you 50. Which is the bug? Did the designers meant it to be 50, but forgot to change the text in the dialogue, or meant it 100 but after changing the dialogue forgot to change the amount given? A wrong decision by the bug fixer can make the game easier or more difficult than intended. Maybe the designers removed a second quest that gave you more gold, and as such decided to increase the amount from 50 to 100 and "fixing" it back to 50 might increase the difficulty. Or conversely maybe they decreased the prices and then lowered the quest reward, and increasing it back to 100 means the game becomes easier.

Which is why I'm a bit wary of overzealous bug fixers. That stash of ammo which was inaccessible and fixed by the mod might have been purposely made so as a quick workaround by the designers who had to rush things and didn't have time to properly redo the level.

That's the general reason. Not saying System Shock 2 is this way. This is not meant as a criticism for all the excellent work the community does in creating the fixes for all those video games. I personally use a lot of fan-made mods and myself have worked with the Baldur's Gate modding community back in the day. It is however the reason why I'd prefer my very first run to be unmodified.

That said, I will do a bit of research about SS2tool and SCP and decide whether to use them or not.
NewDark has a feature, however, that you absolutely want, purist or not.

Compatibility with modern OS and hardware.

The original Dark Engine (I know since I used to own a copy of Thief 2 which uses the same engine) has a LOT of issues with multi-core processors and trying to run them on any OS newer than Windows XP would cause the game to crash after a few seconds.
Posted April 06, 2016
Right. Thanks for all the replies.
Posted April 07, 2016

- enabled subtitles, fogging and weather effects (may be required by mods or fan missions)
Tried the latest patch but I didn't get subtitles, is something else required to get subtitles?
Post edited April 07, 2016 by Hunter65536
Posted April 07, 2016

- enabled subtitles, fogging and weather effects (may be required by mods or fan missions)
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Hunter65536: Tried the latest patch but I didn't get subtitles, is something else required to get subtitles?
I might be wrong here, but I think the latest patch simply enables the engine to display subtitles (in case a mod or a fan mission needs them) but doesn't add them to the game itself.

There might be a separate mod of adding subtitles to the single player mission.

Someone more knowledgeable might give you a better answer.
Posted April 07, 2016
correct.
Posted April 08, 2016
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voodoo47: correct.
Thank you for the reply voodoo47. Downloaded the file in that post, how do I install subs in the game now? Since english is my second language I was having trouble understanding speech in the game.
Posted April 08, 2016
should be explained in the zip with the subs.
Posted April 09, 2016
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voodoo47: should be explained in the zip with the subs.
You're right. Thank you voodoo47! One last question, last time when I was having problems with latest ss2tool installer you suggested v5.3 which worked then but now it isn't working. It's saying that it can't find the sources even though my internet is fine.

Edit: The latest one is giving the same problem it gave before. (Stuck at this message "Sync Exclude list up to date")
Post edited April 09, 2016 by Hunter65536
Posted April 09, 2016
5.3 is not being updated anymore, so if you can't resolve your firewall/connection issues, you will have to do it the hard way - put your SS2 install on a flash drive, patch it on some other computer/connection, and once done, move it back.

if that's not an option, you can always just go with the plain GOG build (the critical stuff is in), install the blue mod manager manually, and load SCP (it has all the SS2tool fixes and more).
Post edited April 09, 2016 by voodoo47
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System Shock seriesSystem Shock 2 - GOG's version(15 posts)solved(15 posts)solved
(15 posts)solved